Tonedexter in the field

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

I recently saw that Seth Avett uses the Martin Gold Thinline and Dave Matthews the Matrix Infinity and I thought "these two strummers are using quacky USTs? Silly." But upon consideration, what else (besides a mag) would work? Could they play at those volumes in a large band with a K&K or Dazzo and be heard without feedback? Probably not. The TD definitely seems like a the great equalizer but we musn't believe that the tonal artifacts of the piezo are entirely without merit.

Neil Young, among others, plays with a Frap at stadium-concert levels, so I'm not sure K&K/Dazzo/Trance are out of the question. But USTs can be useful due to their feedback resistance, tho that's separate from whether the tone and artifacts are desirable. Usually (I think) people put up with the quack because they have no other viable option - but clearly some people have gotten to where that is part of their sound - some Nashville guitarists come to mind. I'd think people would like the feedback resistance of a UST, but prefer a natural sound without the artifacts, but...

[AeroUSA]

Doug you should try the James May Ultra Tonic Pickup...

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Doug you should try the James May Ultra Tonic Pickup...

Yeah, I love the idea of that - very innovative solution. But I've gotten away from K&Ks and pickups that require superglue, and I'm not sure I have the problem the Ultra Tonic was meant to solve - I almost never play very loud and don't get the problem with feedback or a boomy low end, at least not typically.

[AeroUSA]

Doug, which pickup do you favor now (that doesn’t require superglue?)...

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I just had one of my KM184s. We really did no fine tuning of this. Most players who aren't used to recording are really bad at standing/sitting still - and everyone I tried this on was just standing on the stage. I was going for quick trials, so I aimed it roughly at the neck/body joint and hoped they didn't move around too much. One shot training, then see how it sounded.

Interesting. That's indeed a very good mic, but not one on the Audio Sprockets website's recommended list. (Perhaps it has too much of its own tonal "personality" to make the list.) Combine that with the "quick & dirty" WaveMap training method, and it speaks well of ToneDexter that the results were uniformly good (from your personal perspective, at least).

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by Marshall

As long as we're talking ToneDexter in the field; last night I tried using it at an open mic without the power chord, but instead getting power from a regular 9V Lithium battery. It worked fine. It was only a 3 song setup, so the thing was under battery power for only 15 minutes. But it worked fine.

I used a little 9V battery clip chord to the power-in on the ToneDexter.

I played a second 20 minute open mic set with the same 9V battery (and a different guitar) last night. Power held up fine.

It's such a wonderful experience to play my guitar and have it actually sound like my guitar.

Really a thrill.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I played a second 20 minute open mic set with the same 9V battery (and a different guitar) last night. Power held up fine.

It's such a wonderful experience to play my guitar and have it actually sound like my guitar.

Really a thrill.

Keep us posted on how long the battery lasts. I presume you have a spare for when it does go low.


I recall that the Aura Spectrum battery life is 20 hrs. It would be great if TD is in the same ballpark.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Neil Young, among others, plays with a Frap at stadium-concert levels, so I'm not sure K&K/Dazzo/Trance are out of the question.

Touche. You are definitely correct that some indeed make it work (Jackson Browne as well, with the Trance) but I'm sure most stick with a UST or Mag for the dependability and stability rather than purity of tone. Though, to your point, some live by the piezo tone, Monte Montgomery comes to mind. That said, Lindsey Buckingham records most of his acoustics direct with his Turner Renaissance models, which have the Turner Timberline/Wavelength system, and sounds remarkably believable, if not natural, on record. Or it could be that you become so accustomed to piezo tone on his records that you interpret it as "normal" and "natural."

That's one way to beat piezo quack, have it everywhere so it can't be contrasted against anything else.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I played a second 20 minute open mic set with the same 9V battery (and a different guitar) last night. Power held up fine.

It's such a wonderful experience to play my guitar and have it actually sound like my guitar.

Really a thrill.

Can you please post a link to that battery clip...

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Interesting. That's indeed a very good mic, but not one on the Audio Sprockets website's recommended list. (Perhaps it has too much of its own tonal "personality" to make the list.) Combine that with the "quick & dirty" WaveMap training method, and it speaks well of ToneDexter that the results were uniformly good (from your personal perspective, at least).

The 184 is what I've mostly used. Yes, James doesn't recommend it, due to the presence peak, I think. But I've tried everything from an SM57 to a high end ribbon mic, and they all "work", you just get different tones, just as you'd expect from using different mics for recording. So it's a matter of taste. The KM184 works really well for live amplification (micing) of acoustic guitar, so it's not a surprise to me that it works well for training ToneDexter. If you read the review somewhere (Sound on Sound?) that talks about Peter Frampton's use of ToneDexter, they made wavemaps with all kinds of mics that aren't the recommended list, and they pick and choose from them during shows, depending on what sounds right.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Doug, which pickup do you favor now (that doesn’t require superglue?)...

I'm using Trance in most of my guitars. I have 2 Dazzo installs, which use glue, but at least not superglue. There are lots of good pickups that don't need superglue: B-Band, McIntyre, Schatten SBTs, or of course non-SBT options, like the Barbera undersaddle, which is virtually quack-free.

[gfirob]

Marshall, what is the battery you are using, and what are you using for power cables?

And Doug, you are the Pied Piper of Tonedexter (meaning that, of course, in a good way). It was your original video demo that sold me on the unit.

I use a Ear Trumpet Edwina condenser mike to train with, which is actually a medium sized diaphragm rather than a large diaphragm. It works very well for me, but is not on the recommended list.

[The Kid!]

I love my Tonedexter. I have some great sounding wave maps. I get great tones without any feedback. It would be cool if it could run off phantom power.

[Peter Z]

That would bo cool but I think the standard phantom power delivers 10mA and the ToneDexter draws 500mA or more.

A 9 volt battery has a capacity of 500-1200mAh (depending on the type) so it should run for short while before the volage drops too far, and the current goes up for that reason. Check that the battery doesn't get hot!

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Peter Z

That would bo cool but I think the standard phantom power delivers 10mA and the ToneDexter draws 500mA or more.

A 9 volt battery has a capacity of 500-1200mAh (depending on the type) so it should run for short while before the volage drops too far, and the current goes up for that reason. Check that the battery doesn't get hot!

Thanks for the info! I was wondering how much current a 9v battery could deliver, having read that ToneDexter requires 5 or 6 watts of power. If we use the 6 watt estimate to be on the safe side, that's 6w divided by 9v, or a minimum of 667 mA needed. It appears that certain 9v batteries (if they only deliver 500 mA) might not do the job. Looks a little bit dicey, in any event. I presume we'd be safer with two 9v batteries wired in parallel.