Taylor Action Adjustment

[Huskyman]

I have read that Taylor neck adjustments are done using a shim. Is that how they lower the action on a Taylor? Eventually when we are past Covid I want to bring my Taylor into a authorized dealer. All I really want is the action dropped a tiny bit. Is what they will do is drop in the correct shim? Is any saddle sanding done at all?

Thanks.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Deleted my answer because the person who followed has a better and less confusing one.

[Earl49]

Those who sand the saddle down first do not understand the NT system and the shims. Sanding the saddle is the only option with a dovetail neck. The shims serve to set the proper neck angle (as in a neck reset). Action is the height of the strings above the frets -- a combination of the depth of the nut slots and the saddle height. The truss rod is used to set the proper relief or curvature and has a minor effect on the "action" but is not the primary way to change a setup.

A Taylor with the proper neck angle should not need the saddle lowered, except perhaps to get that last 1/32" of custom string height for a particularly low setup. Factory specs are 6/64" for the bass E and 4/64" for the treble e at the 12th fret. If the neck angle is correct and you still want it lower than that, then it is time to sand the saddle and lower the nut slots -- slightly.

[Huskyman]

Thanks everyone. The guitar is fairly new and I don't have a way to measure so I tried to take a photo of the 12th fret which is across from the strap pin. It's a bit hard to see at the 12th but the 11th and 10th are very clear. To me it feels high, are you able to determine anything from the photo?

I have a authorized Taylor person about an hour from me but with the Covid thing going on I am waiting. It feels a little bit hard to play.

[phavriluk]

We're all trying to help, but...a little metal ruler is not too exotic a tool whose use will clarify a great deal. And digging into my pocket, that nickel is just shy of 1/16" thick, and can be used to measure the treble string height at the 12th fret.

[Talldad]

Put a capo on the first fret, get yourself a set of feeler gauges and measure the distance between the 13th fret and the string above. The distances should be around 100/1000, 95/1000, 90/1000, 90/1000, 85/1000 and 75/1000 of an inch.

If they are massively off then wait until you see a Luthier as there are several other things to check for before adjusting the saddle.

[Earl49]

It's hard to tell from the photo, but the action does not look unreasonable to me. If you think it is hard to play, one easy and reversible thing to do is to tune down all six strings by one half step, or Eb. The reduced tension will be easier on your fingers, and if you must play at concert pitch along with someone else, put a capo on the first fret.

Find some coins to make some crude measurements. One nickel is about 1/16" thick (4/64") and two dimes are just under 7/64" total. Odds are your neck angle is good and the saddle height is good (but not low). But the nut slots might not be quite deep enough. If you put a capo on the first fret, does the guitar get noticeably easier to play? That is how you easily diagnose high nut slots.

And voice of experience here -- never mess with the original part. Get a new saddle or nut to make any adjustments on. If you (or the tech) go too far, it is then easy to swap back to the original condition. Even for a shop's tech doing a full set up, pay for the new parts and have them work with those, returning your unmodified factory originals. A really good setup wizard can work with the OEM parts just fine, but when doing nut slots.... literally one file stroke too many can ruin the nut.

[Huskyman]

Thanks everyone. I finally found a ruler where the numbers started at the end and the low E string at the 12th fret is 1/8th.

I can fit one nickel under but not one nickel and one dime. Just using my eye it looks like one nickel and a 1/2 of dime.

For sure it is 2/8 though.

I stated 1/8 but it is 2/8. I corrected the post.

[charles Tauber]

There are few things that ought to clarified.

First, there is what skilled, professional repair persons do. Then there is what amateurs do. Unless specifically requested to do otherwise, most professionals will adjust the nut and saddle that are on the guitar: they don't generally make duplicates and give you the un-modified "original". There is no need to and it is less expensive for the customer. Amateurs, who are worried about making mistakes and ruining the original, often keep the original and make a duplicate. My point is that the advice you receive on a discussion forum often reflects the knowledge and skills of the person providing the advice. It isn't that the advice of amateurs is necessarily "wrong", just be aware that it isn't necessarily what a skilled professional will do, or will want or need to do. If taking your guitar to a professional, don't be surprised if his or her approach differs from some of the advice given on discussion forums.

Second, the amount of relief in a neck can have a significant effect on playability ("action"). In situations where there is too much relief, reducing the relief is often all that is necessary to restore a guitar to desirable playability. Be very clear, however, that the reason that that is helpful is because there is excess relief: the amount of relief is not being used to specifically alter the string height above the frets, it is being used to reduce excessive relief. Checking neck relief is often the starting point for assessing playability.

Third, string height at the nut is largely "non-negotiable". In theory, there is one correct string height at the nut, the height that makes the nut slots the same vertical height as the plane of the frets. In practice, there are occasions/playing styles where it is desirable to make it, literally, a few thousandths of an inch higher than the plane of the frets. Unlike many other manufacturers, Taylor usually sets string height at the nut that is at, or pretty close to, what it should be.

The action is the combination of the neck relief, string height at the nut and string height at the saddle. Start by checking the neck relief. Particularly on a Taylor, it might well be that the relief is excessive and the playability issue is resolved simply by correcting the amount of relief.

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

There are few things that ought to clarified.

First, there is what skilled, professional repair persons do. Then there is what amateurs do. Unless specifically requested to do otherwise, most professionals will adjust the nut and saddle that are on the guitar: they don't generally make duplicates and give you the un-modified "original". There is no need to and it is less expensive for the customer. Amateurs, who are worried about making mistakes and ruining the original, often keep the original and make a duplicate. My point is that the advice you receive on a discussion forum often reflects the knowledge and skills of the person providing the advice. It isn't that the advice of amateurs is necessarily "wrong", just be aware that it isn't necessarily what a skilled professional will do, or will want or need to do. If taking your guitar to a professional, don't be surprised if his or her approach differs from some of the advice given on discussion forums.

Second, the amount of relief in a neck can have a significant effect on playability ("action"). In situations where there is too much relief, reducing the relief is often all that is necessary to restore a guitar to desirable playability. Be very clear, however, that the reason that that is helpful is because there is excess relief: the amount of relief is not being used to specifically alter the string height above the frets, it is being used to reduce excessive relief. Checking neck relief is often the starting point for assessing playability.

Third, string height at the nut is largely "non-negotiable". In theory, there is one correct string height at the nut, the height that makes the nut slots the same vertical height as the plane of the frets. In practice, there are occasions/playing styles where it is desirable to make it, literally, a few thousandths of an inch higher than the plane of the frets. Unlike many other manufacturers, Taylor usually sets string height at the nut that is at, or pretty close to, what it should be.

The action is the combination of the neck relief, string height at the nut and string height at the saddle. Start by checking the neck relief. Particularly on a Taylor, it might well be that the relief is excessive and the playability issue is resolved simply by correcting the amount of relief.

Thank you. I did find a video on youtube by Taylor on how to check the neck relief and it checked out perfectly to what they said. I think they had you hold down the first and twelfth fret and then slide a business card under the sixth fret and it was perfect. Eventually I will get to a Taylor guy and have it adjusted. It's really not high by much.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

For sure it is 2/8 though.

Given that the relief is within a typical range, a string height of 1/4" at the 12th fret indicates a neck reset is a very likely possibility. The other things to check are that the bridge is fully attached, not lifting, and that there isn't excessive curvature of the top that could indicate a loose brace. If there is a gap between the end of the neck and the body, it is possible that the nuts of the bolt-on neck need tightening.

None of those are addressed by reducing the saddle height. To get from 8/32" (2/8") to a typical playing height of 3/32 would require the saddle height to be lowered by twice the difference, or 10/32" (5/16") That is way beyond the range that a saddle is normally adjusted. Unless your guitar has a really, really tall saddle, don't waste your time fooling with the saddle as it isn't the solution to this problem.

The photo you posted doesn't show a guitar with a 1/4" action. Likely, your measurement is incorrect. It might be 2/16 = 1/8", which is well within the range of saddle adjustment, if one has enough saddle projection. In that case, (4/32 - 3/32") x 2 = 2/32" = 1/16" that needs to removed from the saddle to achieve a typical 3/32" string height at the 12th fret.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

Thanks everyone.

Visually that looks fine, even a fraction lower than Taylor specs "visually", when i do a neck reset or action setup even on a Taylor under warranty I come down a little lower than factory specs

Steve

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Given that the relief is within a typical range, a string height of 1/4" at the 12th fret indicates a neck reset is a very likely possibility. The other things to check are that the bridge is fully attached, not lifting, and that there isn't excessive curvature of the top that could indicate a loose brace. If there is a gap between the end of the neck and the body, it is possible that the nuts of the bolt-on neck need tightening.

None of those are addressed by reducing the saddle height. To get from 8/32" (2/8") to a typical playing height of 3/32 would require the saddle height to be lowered by twice the difference, or 10/32" (5/16") That is way beyond the range that a saddle is normally adjusted. Unless your guitar has a really, really tall saddle, don't waste your time fooling with the saddle as it isn't the solution to this problem.

The photo you posted doesn't show a guitar with a 1/4" action. Likely, your measurement is incorrect. It might be 2/16 = 1/8", which is well within the range of saddle adjustment, if one has enough saddle projection. In that case, (4/32 - 3/32") x 2 = 2/32" = 1/16" that needs to removed from the saddle to achieve a typical 3/32" string height at the 12th fret.

You are correct as it is 2/16. The top of low e string is right at 2/16.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

You are correct as it is 2/16. The top of low e string is right at 2/16.

Just to be certain, you are measuring from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom (i.e. the underneath surface) of the E string, and not from the fretboard, right?

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

Just to be certain, you are measuring from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom (i.e. the underneath surface) of the E string, and not from the fretboard, right?

I place the ruler on the fret, yes but my 2/16 is the top of the e string. In that case I guess the measurement is a bit lower than 2/16.