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  #16  
Old 07-31-2020, 04:45 AM
EllenGtrGrl EllenGtrGrl is offline
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Does it get easier - yes and no. After playing for 41 years, it depends upon the skill level of the song. Easy songs (aka "3 chord songs") no problem, due to the skills acquired over the years, that relate to guitar playing making it a breeze to sometimes have songs of that nature down in a half an hour or less. Harder songs, with crazy fingerings, chord shapes, etc. - yeah, I'll pull them off, but I'm going to have to spend some time working on them.

Another thing that can make a song harder, is ensemble playing. I've played in ensembles since 6th grade (1975), when I first played Euphonium in brass bands (which I did through my Sophomore year of college), and I've also played in guitar-centric ensembles (rock bands). I like playing in ensemble situations - the musical whole can definitely be greater than the sum of the individual parts IMO. But, when I started playing in earnest in ensemble situations (a local church band, starting in 2019), where I am the only guitar player, and the musical driving force is a non-guitar player (the musical director of the church band plays piano, and bases everything musically off of that). Things occasionally become a little weird at times. You oftentimes wind up playing in keys that are often not very guitar friendly, requiring me, while playing rhythm guitar, to use different tunings (no biggie - I've been using alternate tunings since the 80s), chord shapes and chord progressions that your typical guitar player doesn't normally play. Oh yeah, and since the main instrument of the ensemble (the piano) doesn't get tuned anywhere near as often as other instruments do (unless you're one of those rare individuals with the skill to do so, you have to cough up the money for a piano tuner to tune it for you), Snarks have become a thing of the past for me for tuning my 12-string, due to the piano tuning being slightly off from standard tuning, and its tuning shifting slightly from week to week, due to changes in temperature and humidity. As a result, I had to pull out my old Sabine tuner I've had since the mid 90s, and use it for tuning my guitar, due to it having a built-in mic element, that allows me to calibrate it to the state of tune the piano is in.

One other thing that can make learning a song challenging, is when you have to learn it on the fly. Oftentimes, the song list for the weekend's masses (that the church band I'm in plays at), aren't sent out until the Friday before the weekend. Oh, and oftentimes the song list completely changes from week to week, and can consist of multiple songs I've never played before (ugh!!). Since I've typically played at the Saturday mass (per the request of the music director, since that mass is the one that is the most lacking in backing musicians), it means that I spend a goodly chunk of Saturday wood shedding before church, to get the songs down, before I head out to play at church, to avoid sounding like a hack, when I play the songs (but even then, the director occasionally does the Chuck Berry thing, and makes changes to the song, that none of us know about, until we start playing it).

Oh for the days when I was more active in the rock band scene, and we had the luxury of spending weeks working up 3 sets worth of material for gigs.
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Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 07-31-2020 at 08:15 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:43 AM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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Yes songs come a little faster with experience, but I'll turn the question around. I've developed my guitar playing more quickly by learning songs. Every song that I work on seems to improve my ability on guitar. This then improves my ability to learn songs.

The process of learning a song is the main thing. I'm a singer, so I have to learn the lyrics and vocal phrasing as well as figure out an arrangement on guitar, such as what will I do for an intro, where to fit a melodic interlude(solo), and work out an ending. In short, sort out the structure of the song.

To that end, I'll write out the lyrics and workout some form of a chord chart that sketches the entire song on a single page(if possible). Then I'll go to work on learning play the guitar and sing the vocal parts.

It's difficult to learn both lyric and chords at the same time, so often I just hum or sing the melody while I getting the chords down.

Writing stuff out on paper really helps me to organize and memorize everything. Playing it for people really cements it into my memory and gives me a reason to work hard on it and finish what I started.

It's not unusual for me to spend a month on a song before I'll play it at a gig, but I usually have two or three tunes going at different stages of development at the same time.

Repetition is the key to getting both the lyrics and guitar parts into muscle memory, so that the distractions of performing don't make you lose your way.

Most importantly, do not engage in just learning snippets of songs, it's a waste of time that leads to not having much, if any, repertoire in the long run. Learn the entire song from start to finish! There is nothing wrong in simplifying an arrangement a bit to match your ability.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:42 AM
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raysachs raysachs is offline
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When a question like this comes up, I always think of the old Greg Lemond quote about bicycle racing, "It never gets easier, you just get faster". Objectively, riding 100 miles in the mountains does get easier as you get stronger, but riding it AT YOUR TOP SPEED never gets easier. It's just your top speed changes.

I find the same thing with playing guitar. I can play songs now that I couldn't used to play, but when I first sit down with one and try to get the feel of one that would have flummoxed me a few years ago, it's still a process of putting in the time and getting the feel for it.

With finger style, I'm still new enough to it that every time I start trying to learn a new piece, or section of a piece, it's kind of like going back to square one. Maybe because finger style is totally about muscle memory to me - it's not something that ever feel natural so much as pieces I get more comfortable with. Once I have the muscle memory established, I can start to play them with a bit more feeling and subtlety, but each new piece is kind of like starting over, unless it closely resembles something I already know.

The only thing that comes really easy to me now (and kind of always has, but not to the same extent) is just laying down a rhythm with my electric, recording it into a looper, and then jamming to it. When I was young there were no loopers, but I was jamming with friends a lot or playing along with records then. Today, i'm a home player and it's mostly a looper. But it's kind of the same dynamic. That's the one thing with a guitar that's always come pretty naturally and easily to me. I'd have to say I've gotten better at it over time, but it was never hard - it's always been the one way I could just play, almost get unconscious about it. Sometimes it's not much more than noodling, but sometimes I hit a vein and just keep going until I've mined it dry. That's the easiest and loosest I've ever gotten with a guitar - it was like that within weeks of starting and it's like that now. Hopefully I'm better, but the process and the ease and enjoyment of it has always kind of been there.

But everything else takes a degree of repetition and discipline and that's really satisfying but isn't really as much fun in the moment.

-Ray
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysachs View Post
When a question like this comes up, I always think of the old Greg Lemond quote about bicycle racing, "It never gets easier, you just get faster". Objectively, riding 100 miles in the mountains does get easier as you get stronger, but riding it AT YOUR TOP SPEED never gets easier. It's just your top speed changes.
.....
Excellent analogy. I hadn't really thought of it that way before.
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2020, 09:57 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Not much of substance to add to the already excellent replies. The more you know, it does get quicker to learn new things. Once have learned to read in the first place, adding vocabulary and tackling harder books becomes doable. An illustrative example that I sometimes use is "See Spot Run" eventually becoming "watch the perambulating canine".
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  #21  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:06 AM
MartinGibsonFan MartinGibsonFan is offline
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The obvious answer is yes, but the paradoxical question is, do you learn to play songs faster by trying to learn songs? Or, do you learn songs faster by practicing technique, chord transitions, alternate chord knowledge, transposing keys, notes, circle of fifths etc.

Learning songs is a good thing, but i think experimenting, with music theory as well as technique is also (more important in my opinion) than actual learning a song.

Learning a certain song can be tedious and frustrating at times. Let your imagination and what if and A HA moments progress you along the way.

My experience, my opinion.

J
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:28 AM
Mike McLenison Mike McLenison is offline
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In general, new songs can be easier to play if you continue using basic chords. In my case, the more I learn the more time I spend doing accompaniment arrangements using different techniques, jazz chords and substitutions. For me, tunes get harder for those reasons.
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2020, 11:35 AM
mawmow mawmow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeX View Post
Yes, you get "better" at it but you also start playing more difficult songs/instrumentals. So, for me, "gets easier" is a misnomer.
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Originally Posted by donlyn View Post
Exactly. The easy ones are yesterday's work, and the hard ones just keep getting harder. Sometimes you just don't notice how much better you've gotten.
Exactly !
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2020, 12:07 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Default Do you learn songs on guitar faster with experience?

No, but with experience on guitar I do learn faster songs...
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  #25  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:56 PM
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I play finger style where experience helps you move your hand to fret locations without too much looking, but you still have to learn the note positions of the entire tune so the whole piece flows.

Learning a finger style tune is like learning one huge new chord in a way.
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:29 PM
Mark L Mark L is offline
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It gets easier to get where you’ve been, and harder to get where you’re going.
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:29 PM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dltw View Post

So if all things were equal, ie same amount of time/effort/knowledge, an experienced guitarist must be able to learn any song quickly. What do you think?
Over the years you will learn chord progressions that are repeated, or nearly so, over a variety of songs. With experience it gets pretty easy to pick these up quickly, even in the middle of a jam. In essence, you know what chord is coming next once you've played the first verse through. There's a point where you don't even need to think about what chord comes next; your fingers just know where to go.

That's the point where jamming is fun. You spend a night playing music you didn't even know you could play.
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:58 PM
Don Grimm Don Grimm is offline
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Default Learning songs

You'll think I'm crazy, but if it's a vocal song sit down and record yourself singing without accompaniment. Get the vocal sound you want and the timing you want and start filling in with the guitar. When I was trying to learn Gary Davis' gospel songs I found that that was the only way that worked for me. Believe me, nobody plays exactly like the Reverend, but you can get a lot closer if you keep that vocal clean and rhythmic. The guitar part will kind of fall into place eventually..... eventually.
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  #29  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:53 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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I always have several going at once. Once in a while I will give up on one that just refuses to come together. There are far more that I can play through with reasonable competence as soon as i see the music notation. Before anyone gets a wrong notion from that statement and thinks I am a super musician, I should say that it is most often the simple songs that attract me. And I make no attempt to play "like" anyone else. And, no, I did not do this right from the beginning. It took some time and it took a lot more time before I attempted to embellish what I play.
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  #30  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L View Post
It gets easier to get where you’ve been, and harder to get where you’re going.
Doesn't get any more concise than that!
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