Talk me off the ledge

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by gutter

Finally got to spend some extended time playing my new D-45 today, and unfortunately I found two apparent defects in the finish. I'm trying to remain calm, but after spending so much money on a guitar I am beside myself.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/q5uzDzLuUlIHHTrj2

Looking for advice and sympathy.

My sympathy you have. I understand the sense of frustration. Particularly as it sounds like this instrument has been something that you have waited on and wanted for a long period. I do counsel calm, though, and not to make any rash decisions. If you think that this is bad, try finding a slight finish imperfection on a boutique guitar that you have waited on for nearly 4 years.

That it merely illustrates that we humans don't really make perfect things does not alleviate the hurt of the moment. But be patient.

It is really hard to discern the finish imperfections from the photos. I understand the limits you might have as to camera, but the way that the light washing them out... I can tell that there are a couple small divots, but not much else.

As noted by others, this could be an issue from the original shoot of lacquer that quality control missed. Could have been bubble created by lacquer sinking into cracks between the abalone that later collapsed, even after it left Martin. You said something in another post about not liking another D-45 as much; did that indicate that you tried them in a store? (More on that in a moment) It doesn't sound like a special order then. So the possibility exists that you were not the first person to look at the guitar. So a doink may have come from someone else prior to being sent to you. And, to be fair, it is possible that you did something yourself during the week that you had the guitar. I am not being accusatory, but rather covering all the possibilities that exist.

The imperfections appear to be pretty small, else you probably would have noticed them earlier. The one appears to be on the edge right ahead of the bridge, so easily spotted, unless it was small and the light not right. That is a good thing. As others have noted, it may be a candidate for drop-filling with lacquer that would cause the imperfection to vanish. I had a doink put into the top of one of my McAlisters (by someone else. Friends are overrated...) that went through the finish and into the wood. My repair person drop-filled it and buffed it so that if one looks, it appears that the grain lines in that spot are a touch darker than the rest. Otherwise it has vanished. And he had tinted toner to deal with.

So my counsel is this. First, notify the seller of the issue, if you ahve not already, so that they are aware. Secondly, do you you have a good (repeat, GOOD!!!) repair person near where you live, so that you could have it looked at in person by someone with knowledge and expertise instead of getting opinions by a bunch of yabos on an internet forum? (Some of the yabos have a great amount of knowledge and expertise, but there is no substitute for hands-on) You could then go back to the seller and maybe Martin too with an expert opinion and estimate, and see what they might want to do to make you whole.

'Cause it comes down to one thing, in my mind: how much do you like the sound and feel of this particular instrument? Looking at your sig list, you are not going to be a stranger to the concept that there is variation between examples of a guitar. So, how much do you like this one? You said that you already rejected another one, although I don't know if you played it or simply did not like the pictures on a website. Shipping any guitar, even for a repair, always runs the risk of damage. Replacement runs the risk of the next one not being to your taste.

So, play it a bunch. Decide how much you like it otherwise. Is it is a "meh," a "pretty good" or a "oh my god, this thing is stellar!" Look down into yourself and decide if you can get past this issue or not if it is properly fixed. Ask about nearby repair people if you do not know one, and make plans to take it there. Let the seller know. Again, be calm. You have options. Do a little more research. It sucks to have the problem, but it is a fixable one.

I would do the above things, if our sandals were switched. What I am not going to do is tell you what do do with the information. That is your choice. And I an't you, nor you me.

I do wish you luck.

OMMV

TW

[Br1ck]

I once had a friend who put a huge divot in the headstock of his D 45. Frank Ford of Gryphon repaired it so as to be undetectable. I knew exactly the spot, and I could not see it.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by tadol

Honestly - no one buys a D-45 JUST to play music - a D-45 was, is, and always will be, a “Look at me!!!!!” guitar - just sayin -

Being the owner of a new D-45 myself, I agree that it's a visually stunning guitar. And I think that is what you are stating above.

However, the new 2018 D-45 with forward shifted scalloped bracing and top woods also sounds very good. Mine is the best sounding Martin I have ever held in my hands. It is more than just a good looking guitar.

I do agree that with such a beautiful, new guitar, the dimples should be fixed. And the fix is not all that difficult or risky in competent hands.

- Glenn

[J Patrick]

...I think the notion that a high end guitar...no matter who it is made by...should and/or must be perfect is naive and unreasonable....I recently read here someone claiming to be able to find imperfections on"any guitar"...although my powers of observation may not be quite so keen i have seen enough to agree that perfection is rarely attainable..

...if you're buying in at that level there should be a lot more than flawlessnes that commands the premium price...

...as to the issue at hand...I have had minor finish issues on a number of expensive guitars and managed to not let them lessen my evaluation of the instruments or my pleasure in playing them....the only time such issues bother me is when i am staring directly at them...I certainly know folks who are more particular than I am and some less so....there sure are a heck of things to like about a D-45....imperfections or not...

btw OP...would luv to see some glamour shots of that guitar...

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Being the owner of a new D-45 myself, I agree that it's a visually stunning guitar. And I think that is what you are stating above.

However, the new 2018 D-45 with forward shifted scalloped bracing and top woods also sounds very good. Mine is the best sounding Martin I have ever held in my hands. It is more than just a good looking guitar.

I do agree that with such a beautiful, new guitar, the dimples should be fixed. And the fix is not all that difficult or risky in competent hands.

- Glenn

Come on, Glenn we all know that you bought it as a fashion statement because it matches your boa...

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Come on, Glenn we all know that you bought it as a fashion statement because it matches your boa...

LOL!!! Oh, wow!

You made me laugh!!!

- Glenn

[gutter]

Wow, this post got more attention than I was expecting. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Still contemplating my next move, but I have reached out to the retailer to get their take. I'll try to answer a few questions:

1.) These are the only pits in the finish that I see. Everything else is pretty much flawless. There are some very light scratches in the finish where it looks like someone didn't use a soft cloth.

2.) I know some people are skeptical that defects like this would leave Martin's factory, and I will concede that it may have happened when the retailer photographed/inspected it. I just don't know. All I do know is I have been extremely careful handling it - especially still being in the return window. Since they are right over shiny abalone, most people wouldn't even notice unless they ran their finger over it (like I did).

3.) I'm pretty weary of going the repair route for a few reasons:

a.) I took a guitar to a very reputable Martin authorized dealer to have a scratch fixed. They did a horrible job and actually scratched the finish in other places in the process.
b.) A lot of local luthiers I've talked to won't even do refinishing work because they say the results almost never meet expectations.
c.) The turnaround time on a repair from the Martin factory is several months.

4.) In terms of sounds - it sounds pretty good to me. It sounds a lot like HD-28Vs I've played in the past and considered before going the D-45 route. Very deep, boomy bass. The high/mids are a *little* lacking unless you really dig in. I hesitate to say I love it, but I also haven't changed the strings yet and that tends to make a pretty big difference.

5.) A few folks have asked if I'm a collector or a player. I'm both. I love playing acoustic, and I also love the artistry and craftsmanship of Martin's guitars. I'm not sure why some people equate playing with beating the crap out of your guitar. I pride myself on taking care of my stuff.

6.) I've never seen a new Martin with finish issues like this.

7.) I am not mentally ill. At least, I don't think I am?



Thanks again for all of the input and advice.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by gutter

7.) I am not mentally ill. At least, I don't think I am?

Dude, I've seen your sig list...

[gutter]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Dude, I've seen your sig list...

You make a fair point, sir.

They do not look like impact dings/chips to me. However, they may not necessarily have been there when the guitar left the factory. There are often small gaps around the binding/purfling where lacquer sinks in. They are filled and leveled before the final coat, but sometimes they sink more and show up again later.

I would expect Martin to correct this under warranty, and if you liked this particular D-45 significantly better than another example at the same store, I surely would recommend having it fixed rather than exchanging the guitar for an unknown quantity.

Finally, anyone looking for absolute perfection and finding it isn't looking closely enough. I can find issues with ANY guitar and I mean ANY guitar. Some require a lot more looking than others, but nothing is truly perfect. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts and one minor issue should not (in my opinion) diminish the overall satisfaction of an otherwise excellent product.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

To everyone who thinks the pits on the finish are "trivial": Imagine if the OP posted this guitar for sale here in the AGF classifieds, and stated that these pits were present, and that you could "feel them when you ran your finger over the location"...I can see it now...prospective buyers would demand 48 different photographs of the pits, taken from 15 different angles, and if an offer were made on the guitar, the perspective buyer would very likely justify an offer several hundred dollars off the market value due to the pits.

If you were buying this guitar used, would the pits be trivial? Not very likely. As the old saying goes, "It all depends on whose ox is getting gored."

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by gutter

Wow, this post got more attention than I was expecting.

Step 1: Forward this thread to Martin customer service.

[frankmcr]

Calling them "pits" seems kind of exaggerated.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Being the owner of a new D-45 myself, I agree that it's a visually stunning guitar. And I think that is what you are stating above.

Absolutely! If all you wanted was a great sounding player, there are a lot of options in that price range that would (arguably) be better, even possibly a hand-built custom from one of the fine luthiers who regularly post on this forum, but none of them would have the bling or visual impact of a 45, so clearly, that has to be a very important piece of why someone would buy one - and why concern about the appearance of something that might be considered a visual defect should be taken seriously -

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

To everyone who thinks the pits on the finish are "trivial": Imagine if the OP posted this guitar for sale here in the AGF classifieds, and stated that these pits were present, and that you could "feel them when you ran your finger over the location"...I can see it now...prospective buyers would demand 48 different photographs of the pits, taken from 15 different angles, and if an offer were made on the guitar, the perspective buyer would very likely justify an offer several hundred dollars off the market value due to the pits.

If you were buying this guitar used, would the pits be trivial? Not very likely. As the old saying goes, "It all depends on whose ox is getting gored."

If I were buying this guitar used, and I loved how it looked, felt, played, and sounded, then yes...the "pits" would be trivial to me because they are tiny, not structural issues in any way, would not effect the guitars performance as an instrument, hard to see for the most part, and easily fixed if it were to drive me crazy...which it wouldn't, and I wouldn't be worried about re-sale value loss, because I never ever worry about that buying a guitar anyway.

duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher