How much does lack of Martin serial number affect re-sale value? - Page 2

sjh111222 · #16 05-02-2018, 12:03 PM

My D-18 still has all of the other markings.

L20A · #17 05-02-2018, 01:31 PM

I just remembered that there are some Martin guitar out there that were made by the employees for their own use and were not actual Martin guitar.
Could your guitar be one of these?

Is the neck block scratched up where it's obvious that the serial number was removed?
If it was, it was most likely stolen.

sjh111222 · #18 05-02-2018, 02:24 PM

There are no markings on the block. About 10 years ago I had the action adjusted with a saddle mod. The guitar repairman said he thought this might be some sort of special model since he could not see any scratches on the block at all. The block surface is completely smooth. If I get a neck re-set and there are no signs of the SN penciled on the dovetail it will remain a mystery.

Thanks,
Steve

#19 05-02-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjh111222

There are no markings on the block. About 10 years ago I had the action adjusted with a saddle mod. The guitar repairman said he thought this might be some sort of special model since he could not see any scratches on the block at all. The block surface is completely smooth. If I get a neck re-set and there are no signs of the SN penciled on the dovetail it will remain a mystery.

That's a different matter entirely. If it is a Martin guitar at all, it is likely an employee guitar. That means a guitar that the employee made, with the help of those skilled at thing he or she wasn't. They were built with Martin materials, in the Martin factory, by Martin staff. They are in every functional respect, a Martin guitar, except they're sorta not. Collectors consider "employee guitars" to be a special class of Martin guitars, usually worth less than similar production models unless connected to some particularly famous employee.

I took it (incorrectly) from the previous posts that the serial number had been removed, not that it was never there. Now photos would be more helpful than ever.

Big Band Guitar · #20 05-02-2018, 02:36 PM

No sn then it's not a Martin.

That is why there are no "Martin" factory seconds.
A technicality in terms.

sjh111222 · #21 05-02-2018, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I took it (incorrectly) from the previous posts that the serial number had been removed, not that it was never there. Now photos would be more helpful than ever.

I did word it that way in my initial post since I have always assumed the SN was somehow removed. Aside from the 1 repair guy who thought there never was a SN on the block, I have never had any other info that would say otherwise. The employee guitar theory sounds very possible so I feel somewhat better about the guitar. I will take some pictures tonight and post them for comment. Thanks for all of the input, this has been very informative for me.

Steve

sjh111222 · #22 05-02-2018, 06:19 PM

I took some photos of the block and it is not as clean as I thought. With the camera flash the D-18 letter-number outline is visible on the block and there does appear to be abrasions where the serial number would have been. It feels smooth to the touch in that area but with the bright light it doesn't look so smooth. So, I am back to my original premise that the serial number was removed. I was holding out hope for a little bit but no such luck. I think I will have it looked at and get an estimate to get it in good shape again. If I can determine the SN once the neck is removed then I will see what the next step would be after that. Thanks again for all of the replies today.

ManyMartinMan · #23 05-02-2018, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Martin does not sell seconds of Nazareth-built guitars. They did sell seconds of Sigma and Shenandoah guitars, but even then all the markings were removed, not just serial numbers...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

....If it is a Martin guitar at all, it is likely an employee guitar. That means a guitar that the employee made, with the help of those skilled at things he or she wasn't. They were built with Martin materials, in the Martin factory....

As usual, Todd is likely spot on. There would be no reason to cleanly remove the serial number. Even when selling a guitar to another individual there’s never a theft report done on a guitar.

Additionally, the cost of a neck reset is more than worth it, to me, on a nice D-18. Selling a great guitar because it needs a neck reset to me is like sellin a car because it needs an alignment and shakes a bit. Just fix it and it will be great again.

AllThumbsBruce · #24 05-02-2018, 08:01 PM

Forensic scientists have apparently developed methods to restore obliterated serial numbers in wood, as is routinely done with metal. Application of steam swells the damaged region that was originally below the stamping, raising the numbers. You might suggest that the repair guy shoot some steam around the serial number region, since they probably will be using steam to free up the neck for the neck set anyhow.

About the neck set - I would recommend going for it! In my opinion a D-18 is worth keeping in top playing shape - specially one that has sentimental value.

archerscreek · #25 05-02-2018, 08:20 PM

Someone mentioned legal issues. If you bought it in the1970s the statute of limitations has long run out even if you knowingly purchased a stolen guitar. Heck, you were free and clear when the Gipper was still in office. (5 years for theft. 2 years for receiving stolen property in PA.)

SL50045 · #26 05-02-2018, 09:27 PM

I won a Martin D-28GE Cambodian at an event in Nazareth PA called Martin on Main that never had a serial number. The neck block says "CF Martin & Co. D-28GE Cambodian" that's it. It was an R&D guitar but it does not say "R&D" anywhere in the guitar. Chris Martin took a picture with me and the guitar. I was actually featured in the Martin Guitar publication "The Sounding Board" several years ago with the guitar.
For $20 worth of tickets it was a great buy!

catfish · #27 05-03-2018, 01:08 AM

Steve,

If you will decide to keep the guitar, check out who Bryan Kimsey is, just search this forum with a keyword 'Bryan Kimsey'. He is a guitar tech who work on Martins and does mods on 1970-ies Martins. He has his own website and Youtube channel. There you can see details.

I have no affiliation with the guy.

Zigeuner · #28 05-03-2018, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

Lack of a serial number could mean it was a factory second. I bought one from that (directly) that was that way. Or it could be hot. Or...

Martin does not sell seconds.

It could be a Martin employee-built guitar, but those are often different from standard models.

The lack of a serial will devalue the instrument greatly. This is only an issue if the owner wants to sell it.

lowrider · #29 05-03-2018, 02:57 AM

Just to show, here's another Martin, on Ebay, with no serial number;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MARTIN-6-St...0AAOSwFXla1hK5

OKCtodd71 · #30 05-03-2018, 03:19 AM

If you've kept the guitar for 42 years I'll assume that you like how it sounds? How much is a neck re set going to cost, vs selling it for $500 or less and replacing it with another D-18 (which if used may need a neck reset?) going to cost. Seems like paying for the re set for a guitar you like is the only sound financial move to make.