Newbie: Buying advice needed. Tak or US brands?

[swissguitar]

Hello I am new here.
Greetings from Switzerland.

I play country-style music (strumming and some finger-plucking) and recently started playing in a Worship band in my Church.
Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, Kim Walker, Hillsongs type.

I played the Takamine (dunno the body model) but with a Cool Tube preamp last week and it sounded so good on stage.

I had planned to get a "low end" Yamaha APX700ii or CPX1200 series but having tested them against the Tak's yesterday afternoon, I am inclined to say I fell in love with the Takamine clear clang sound.

I played the Takamines which are made in Japan. Pro 3, EF440 and some others.
I also tried one with the Cool Tube and I feel that I must get it!

I want to avoid the China-made ones but you can correct me if I am wrong.

I came across a limited series TF450SMSB (Bruce Springsteen sunburst) which has a Cool Tube preamp and I am keen to test it and perhaps buy it.

I want to ask you, the experts here, if there are "way better" Taylors, Martins, whatever US-Made electric acoustics guitars (please list specific models or model range please and corresponding pre-amps included) which should be better for the same money.
And why I should try them.

I do know US-made good guitars appreciate in sound and value over the years.

Budget for that Takamine EF450SMSB is around US$1800.

Please advise. Thanks. I am looking forward to some sound advice.

[dsurratt]

I think for your budget of around $1800US a Japanese made Takamine with the Cool-Tube is not a bad choice. Plugged in Takamine's sound great and are the choice of many touring artists.

To me the difference between a Takamine and a Taylor, Martin, etc. comes in the unplugged sound. I think both brands generally have a fuller tone unplugged while still having a solid plugged in tone.

Other models you may want to explore are the Taylor 300 and 400 series guitars and the Martin 15 and 16 series guitars as well as the Martin Performing Artist guitars.

Good luck in your search!

[Treenewt]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago and picked up a Martin DC16OGTE. It has been a workhorse for me. Great plugged in, and very easy to use preamp. Can be had for around your budget new. But I'm a Martin guy. :-)

Go play some and see what you like. Takamine makes a great guitar, but I personally wouldn't spend that much on one. I'd put it on a martin or (can't believe I'm saying this) a Taylor. But I'm not paying. You are. Go with what you like and you will end up happy.

[ewalling]

I've owned three Martins - a 000-15M, a 000-18Ge, and a 000-42. I've also owned some Taylors - a GC3, GC8, and a GA8. I now own the Japanese-made Takamine TF87PT New Yorker, which is an all-solid small bodied guitar in cedar and koa, which also has the youtube. I'd say this Tak holds its own in build quality and acoustically with the Martins and the Taylors. It was an excellent buy.

[scottishrogue]

Since the '60s (when I began playing guitar) the "big 3" were Gibson, Martin and Fender. Since then, Taylor and Takamine have reached a significant level of popularity.

But, every guitar is different. And every model is different. Nobody really knows which guitars have the highest quality, but many people have their own preference for brands and models. There are many factors that contribute to the quality of construction, as well as the sound they produce. My preference is a used Martin guitar, and I own several. All of my acoustic/electric guitars have Fishman preamps. There are many that prefer different electronics...K&K, Roland come to mind, but there are others to choose from.

The only person that can determine what YOU like the best, is YOU. Play as many as you can, so you can tell the difference between brands, between different models. All of the brands you mentioned are excellent quality in the price range in which you are looking. Good luck in your search! It should be a fun project, and I'm sure you will learn a lot.

Glen

[swissguitar]

Thanks guys.

Although I asked for advice and some hints and tips, I know the "tested way" to buy is to try and try and try as many guitars as possible.

Sound, feel, plugged in preamps, quality, emotion....all needs to be prioritised.

I found a marked down priced TF450SMSB (Bruce Springsteen model) with Cool Tube for a low price (20% from list and quite "old stock").
I know some of you may say it is too expensive but in Switzerland it is hard to buy a good new or used Guitar.
Buying over the internet for my budget seems very risky.

I went down to the shop today and tested it.

There was a bad buzz on the action on String 1 and 2 when we started testing.
He adjusted the bridge twice before he got the action right. He said he added some height with silicon hairlike fillings (guitar ones).

There is also a slight buzz on String 1, fret 9 but it is "acceptable" after 2 hours of testing.

When he took out the TAKAMINE CASE, I almost fainted.
It was old, dusty and scoffed quite badly although it was an unused case (old stock), in the end he gave me another 50chf (US$48) off the price. It was made in China (of course).

All in all I am happy like hell as tomorrow is my birthday I was searching for a quality guitar to buy.

A comparable one will be the Pro series 9. (I think). That cost over double what I paid today.
It is Solid Spruce Top, Maple rest.
Ebony fretboard.
Very well lacquered.
Made in Japan.
Heavy (solid feel).
Trimmings all smooth and expertly done.

I was tempted by a Martin DRS1 (half price of mine).
But it lacks a tuner.
I was surprised how "clear" it sounded plugged and unplugged. (Made in Mexico, good lads over that)
I may buy it next time.

Thank you all for the remarks and support.

[Diamond Dave]

I think your avoidance of Chinese-made guitars is silly. Your Japanese Takamine used to carry a similar stigma, you know. There are thousands and thousands of Eastman, Blueridge, Recording King and Ibanez owners out there who can vouch for the quality of Chinese-made guitars today.

China is a big place. Just because some outfit in China makes lousy guitars should not in any way, shape or form taint products from the whole country. There are 1.4 billion Chinese (one out of five humans!), so you can't make many blanket statements about China that apply to all.

[Long Jon]

Originally Posted by swissguitar

Hello I am new here.

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I want to avoid the China-made ones but you can correct me if I am wrong.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I want to ask you, the experts here,

Originally Posted by Diamond Dave

I think your avoidance of Chinese-made guitars is silly.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,snip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

so you can't make many blanket statements about China that apply to all.

Welcome to the most polite forum on the net!

[Goodallboy]

His caution regarding Chinese guitars is anything but "silly". Japanese made guitars have been regarded for their workmanship for so long as to link them with China may be what is really silly.

You can't miss with the Taks for the purpose you indicate. At that price point they have the acoustic electric market cornered.

Keep us posted on your results. We'll try to be less critical of your posts in the future.

[DesertTwang]

I agree with what was said before about the differences in sound mainly coming out when playing unplugged. To me, a plugged-in guitar loses about 70% of its characteristic sound. You can strum away on a $400 Yamaha or a $5,000 Martin, if they're plugged in, I can't tell the difference. If it was me and if I was looking for a guitar to play plugged-in, I'd spend a few hundred dollars and save the rest for a nice guitar to play unplugged.

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

His caution regarding Chinese guitars is anything but "silly". Japanese made guitars have been regarded for their workmanship for so long as to link them with China may be what is really silly.

You can't miss with the Taks for the purpose you indicate. At that price point they have the acoustic electric market cornered.

Keep us posted on your results. We'll try to be less critical of your posts in the future.

I think everybody is entitled to their own attitude. I have my own personal attitude about Chinese guitars and will never buy one. It has nothing to do with "rational" reasons. Yes, they make great guitars, absolutely. But I still won't buy one, for reasons that have nothing to do with quality, workmanship etc.

[Diamond Dave]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

His caution regarding Chinese guitars is anything but "silly". Japanese made guitars have been regarded for their workmanship for so long as to link them with China may be what is really silly.

And how did Japan overcome the stigma of making junk? By making good guitars. By improving. Which is just what Chinese makers have done in recent years. When Japan's quality improved and its labor became expensive, Taiwan was the next stop for cheap manufacturing. Now iPads are made in Taiwan.

It's completely logical to link Chinese guitars to Japanese guitars, because history is repeating itself.

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Keep us posted on your results. We'll try to be less critical of your posts in the future.

No, we won't. And if explaining why an anti-Chinese bias is silly is wrong or critical, then I don't want to be right or less than critical.

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

I think everybody is entitled to their own attitude. I have my own personal attitude about Chinese guitars and will never buy one. It has nothing to do with "rational" reasons. Yes, they make great guitars, absolutely. But I still won't buy one, for reasons that have nothing to do with quality, workmanship etc.

I can read between those lines and those reasons are perfectly fine. Just remember that you may want to consider those same reasons when buying from other countries, too. Not all countries have been the models of liberal democracy and worker safety that they are today, or make themselves out to be.

PS The computer or mobile device from which you sent your message, DesertTwang, is loaded with Chinese-made components and Chinese-sourced rare earth elements. Just sayin'.

[SuperB23]

I'd go for a Breedlove American Series guitar or an older Pro or Roots Series. I've seen them for well under $1000 USD. They sound better to my ears than most Taks I've played.

[Tony Burns]

You'd probably get a way better deal on that Tak than you'd ever get on a Martin or Taylor ( especially when your outside of the US )
Tak's are very durable decent instruments -Japanese models are way on top of Chinese models .To find a Martin of simalar quality you will pay for it threw the nose -I wouldn't accept a model less than a D-18 ( seriously ) they are pricy -if your looking long run -Martins are great guitars -but do you have the mulla ?

[swissguitar]

Hi guys

Take it easy. We play guitars, not bazookas.

1. Takamines from Japan and China. I played with both. Some China-made ones sound good but the finishing is still below that from the Japanese made ones. Most the the G-series are not up to par (even though I am new to quality acoustic guitars, it is telling)

Also, the China-made ones come with lower spec Preamps. Something which I need for my purchase. Cool Tube as far as I know, is the top spec preamp, followed closely by CT4DX (just look at the Pro series).

2. China and Japan. They are miles apart although many western people cannot tell them apart. I am by no means belittling China or her people, probably because I have Chinese relatives too.

China is getting there, I am sure. While they are at it, I will spend my hard earned money on a KNOWN thing. Japanese Takamines are a class apart.
The smooth lacquer and solid wood just feels right.

3. I probably can get a better or betterer guitar from Taylor, Breedlove, Martin , etc etc. The list is ocean deep.

I don't have more than 2 hands at one time and my house does not have that many guitar stands.

I tried a Mexican Martin. It rocks. But it lacks a tuner which is needed by me during stage play.

4. The TF450SMSB is also (by chance) the guitar used by Bruce Springsteen. So for keep's sake, I also took this as a positive thing to buy it to "remember" him. I do know this sentence will make people blast me for my choice. But hey, it's my choice. Did I say the color rocks too?


5. The cooltube is one of the best preamp acoustic sound I heard. It is well worth buying a discontinued model from Takamine. Oh yes, discontinued is a plus for me, cos I don't like to be part of the masses. I prefer to be "unique". You cannot easily buy this guitar anymore (yes amazon says they have it, wait til you actually try to order one).

Peace. And keep your energy on positive comments and play your guitars!


I spent today playing the new baby. It rocks unplugged too. Very clear chimes.