Accuracy of Clip-On vs. Tuner Apps

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by wguitar

Hi folks,

Just wondering your views on the accuracy of a clip-on tuner (Snark for example) vs. guitar tuner apps on my iphone?

Thanks!

Hi wguitar…

The accuracy of modern digital tuners are generally ¹⁄₁₀₀₀ or ¹⁄₅₀₀ of a half step. But accuracy is not the only element which makes a tuner useful.

Truth is, I can use a Snark (+-3 cents) and do a respectable job of getting guitars in tune (I use my eyes and ears and how the guitar resonates against my chest to tune). Intonation is heard and felt. Since when is 1%, 2% or 3% of a ¹⁄₁₀₀ half step not accurate enough?

The issue with a NO EARS NEEDED approach to tuning is relying solely on the tuner to get us home.

Polytune, or Peterson clip or Korg Sledgehammer all are equal in accuracy. The Peterson is the most reactive, the Polytune/Unitune less so, and the Korg Sledgehammer least reactive.

I use the Unitune/Polytune on stage when playing acoustic on stage and still tweak for the 2nd & 3rd strings (because even well intonated acoustic guitars have notes which are notoriously out of tune). And it's sensitive enough I can dial-in my 6th string when I drop to D in the middle of a song, and raise it back to E accurately for the next song.

The Korg Sledgehammer works best on my Strat or Tele. It's a bit of an idiot compared to a Peterson or Polytune/Unitune. It's both a little slow and and doesn't hear as well. But it nails pitches onstage after I've pulled off too many bends in a row.

The Peterson tuners (I own a clip on, sit on the table, and software in the phone versions) are great when setting intonation on guitars, but mostly troublesome when playing live.

I like the Airyware phone tuner. It has more built in features that I love, and the free version (if it's still around) is great for most players.

Works with iOS 8+, Android 4.1+, Windows Phone 7+, Windows 10+, Xbox One+.

Hope this adds to the discussion.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

The farther out of intonation your guitar is. The tougher it is to keep a strobe from bouncing around.

As it reads not only the fundamental note. But also the harmonic overtones...

Not sure I understand. You’re tuning an open string. As long as the tension is correct to get the fundamental right you should also get the right overtones. The intonation will be an issue when you play a fretted note, no?

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Not sure I understand. You’re tuning an open string. As long as the tension is correct to get the fundamental right you should also get the right overtones. The intonation will be an issue when you play a fretted note, no?

Check your guitar with a Peterson strobe tuner (real strobe) or the Peterson app using the "Harmonics" extra-cost feature. I'll bet you find at least one or two strings where the harmonics and fundamental are nowhere near in tune. Either with open string or (perhaps moreso) when fretted.

An acoustic guitar and especially an acoustic guitar with notes being fretted are so far from matching the assumptions of the "ideal string theory" it's a wonder we can make music with them at all.

Of course without either a very, very good ear or a tuner that can simultaneously show all the harmonics most people remain blissfully unaware. Although in my limited experience electric guitar players tend to notice inharmonicity and intonation problems that most acoustic players ignore.

[kurth]

one trick to using apps is , if your guitar has electronics, use a cheap ios adapter, like there used to be 'irig' chinese for less than 10bucks on amazon, and tune wired up. Makes a big difference over using the onboard mic. I use 3 steps ....clip on, then cabled tuning to iphone or ipad, then my ear, cause every guitars different. The good thing about the apps is you can quickly switch between them for even more feedback accuracy. And most are free. I find that connected apps are alittle more accurate than clip-ons using vibration from the headstock, because they're usually using vibration from an undersaddle piezo, which is closer to the source.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Check your guitar with a Peterson strobe tuner (real strobe) or the Peterson app using the "Harmonics" extra-cost feature. I'll bet you find at least one or two strings where the harmonics and fundamental are nowhere near in tune. Either with open string or (perhaps moreso) when fretted...

Yes - no question when fretted. The question in my mind is when it's an open string, which is how I always tune my guitars. I don't see how improper intonation could cause the tuner to oscillate about the fundamental...it's just an open string.

I'm genuinely curious about this because I often see this oscillation when tuning, especially on the bass strings. It made me wonder if it is due to an interaction with a guitar resonance. Or maybe it has to do with the things (like stiffness) that make a guitar string "non-ideal".

[foxo]

I’ve got a £50 gift voucher for Guitar Guitar. Thinking of getting a Peterson StroboClip HD with that voucher. Is it worth it?

[Gee Man]

Originally Posted by foxo

I’ve got a £50 gift voucher for Guitar Guitar. Thinking of getting a Peterson StroboClip HD with that voucher. Is it worth it?

I think so.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Yes - no question when fretted. The question in my mind is when it's an open string, which is how I always tune my guitars. I don't see how improper intonation could cause the tuner to oscillate about the fundamental...it's just an open string.

I'm genuinely curious about this because I often see this oscillation when tuning, especially on the bass strings. It made me wonder if it is due to an interaction with a guitar resonance. Or maybe it has to do with the things (like stiffness) that make a guitar string "non-ideal".

It's not only affected by the intonation of the guitar in terms of fret spacing, saddle compensation and so forth. Due to the stiffness of steel strings, the harmonics are out of tune with the fundamental (inharmonicity). The tuner is hearing the frequency of both the note itself plus the 2nd, 3rd, 4th harmonics and so forth.

As the note is plucked and then decays there may be moments where a particular harmonic is nearly as strong as the fundamental. Or in the case of a low-E string the fundamental may even be weaker. So the oscillation is (partly) due to the tuner displaying an average of an constantly changing mixture of harmonics.

I use the Peterson app with the harmonic tuning add-in. The G-string is the worst (on my guitar at least) for inharmonicity with the 2nd harmonic sometimes being as much as 5-6 cents sharp while the fundamental is 5-6 cents weak on an open G. A sensitive tuner will have trouble deciding whether that note is in tune or not from moment to moment.

[Honkycat]

Originally Posted by foxo

I’ve got a £50 gift voucher for Guitar Guitar. Thinking of getting a Peterson StroboClip HD with that voucher. Is it worth it?

I think it is too. There’s a sweetened tuning that you can download to the tuner that’s based on the tuning James Taylor devised (SBJ) and it really works for me.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by foxo

I’ve got a £50 gift voucher for Guitar Guitar. Thinking of getting a Peterson StroboClip HD with that voucher. Is it worth it?

Yes and no. Its a very accurate tuner with the famous Peterson strobe-type display. Of note, it has the same chip type actual tuner as most any other clip on tuner—it just has the strobe display.

Ive had one for a year now, and use it rarely in my music room only. It is VERY sensitive and jumps all over the place, making tuning a tedious, intensive struggle. Any ambient noise is transmitted through the guitar and confuses tuner. The clip-on nature helps, its not quite as sensitive as its hand-held sibling, but I find the PolyTune much quicker and easier for everyday use. (And it has a strobe display option if youre so inclined)

[Honkycat]

I suppose people’s thresholds of tedium is a broad spectrum, but for me it’s fine and the sweetened settings to smooth out the inherent inaccuracies of the acoustic guitar are a real plus for me as well.

[Mike McLenison]

Never had an issue with any tuner accuracy be it Snark, Boss or a Korg rack mount unit. Many intonation issues can occur from how high the action is at the nut, saddle or saddle placement or how hard you fret chords, etc.

[rllink]

When I first learned to play the guitar three or four of us would get together in the evenings after our shift was over and play. We had one guy who was our leader I guess you would say. He was the best and most knowledgeable. He tuned the A string somewhere that sounded good to him, tune the rest of the strings to that. We tuned to him. There was no angst over 440hz. It was all relative.

I always had a hard time tuning one string off another. Clip on tuners were a godsend to me. Anyone use pitch pipes anymore?

[Joe Beamish]

I use a little Daddario clip-on to get the pitch for the A string, then tune off that, but not the same way for each string.

For example, the 6th string likes to go sharp when fretted, so I fret it at the fifth position to tune it to the open A string. From there I use harmonics on the A string to tune the other strings when fretted in A positions.

Sometimes I simply tune all strings to the clip-on, but I’ll have to make more adjustments depending on what I’m playing, and how far up the neck.

[captain_jack]

I posted a somewhat similar question a while ago:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=602685

I've used a clip on tuner since the start and recently switched to a TC UniTune which I've been very happy with. I also find the non strobe mode easier to use like somebody else mentioned.

I still wonder tho (out of plain curiosity), which tuner type has the capacity to be the most accurate, in theory, based on the nature of how the technology works? (that is, clip on vs microphone vs pedal?)