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Old 12-02-2022, 11:46 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Default Tesla delivers their first semi tractor.

Vague on details, better late than never, but they did it. The 1 megawatt charging caught my interest. I understand the skeptics because other makers beat them to market and publish specifications Tesla is not doing yet.

The weight matter is going to be important for a lot of customers. I'm sure the reduced range for Paccar (Kenworth, Peterbilt) is as much about weight as it is cost.

Several major players in my industry - food - are all looking at new era transportation and it is exciting. Hydrogen may work for the beverage and distributor players. Our stores get stuff 24x7x365 from a distribution center between Chicago and Milwaukee that serves around 12 million grocery shoppers. Our stores are 100% renewable programs and we have charge capacity. Pretty cool to think your food will get to the stores with a much lower foot print.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ks-2022-12-02/
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Old 12-03-2022, 10:41 PM
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Several major players in my industry - food - are all looking at new era transportation and it is exciting.[/url]
And the problem with long established succesful vehicles such as these is what exactly? Not sexy anough?

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Old 12-04-2022, 05:38 AM
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[QUOTE=frankmcr;7139144]And the problem with long established succesful vehicles such as these is what exactly? Not sexy anough?

Perhaps your comment is tongue-in-cheek?

But if not:

The older the vehicle, the more polluting they tend to be. Electric vehicles are almost always less polluting….though some areas that rely on old coal burning facilities to generate electricity, using an electric car does not reduce pollution nearly as much as areas that utilize mire renewables. But it seems clear that renewable energy is getting cheaper to produce with each passing year, especially compared to coal fired plants, many coal powered plant have been decommissioned because they cant compete on price. More and more, we will see adoption of renewable energy production because of cost savings
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Old 12-04-2022, 06:12 AM
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Three times as powerful as diesel.

Accelerate uphills.

Arrive at the bottoms of hills with cool brakes by virtue
of regenerative braking.

They only go 500 miles, so they have the same range issues as all
electric vehicles... a regular truck with big tanks could go a couple
of thousand miles. 500 miles is plenty to make them useful for
a lot of work... I'm motivated to ask my truck driver friends how
often they drove more than 500 miles per day...

-Mike
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Old 12-04-2022, 07:13 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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And the problem with long established succesful vehicles such as these is what exactly? Not sexy anough?

The successful 1970s commercial EVs needed a cable or swapping large lead/acid battery units so were not practical the way current units are. The electric UTVs used by municipalities and large campuses near me would be sort of like that milk hauler in your video.

In my area they found the "stroads" as a problem too. They are fast, chaotic and dangerous for some vehicles just as they are to pedestrians. The large campus near us has evolved or developed where the utility vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists have different routes than the express car/truck routes. That's better for all.

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Three times as powerful as diesel.

Accelerate uphills.

Arrive at the bottoms of hills with cool brakes by virtue
of regenerative braking.

They only go 500 miles, so they have the same range issues as all
electric vehicles... a regular truck with big tanks could go a couple
of thousand miles. 500 miles is plenty to make them useful for
a lot of work... I'm motivated to ask my truck driver friends how
often they drove more than 500 miles per day...

-Mike
The 500 mile range is short for OTR or long haul and a lot for the huge part of our economy that is distribution to end points. For example, I recall news that an area with a lot of distribution centers serving our stores serves 12+ million people and it is a 240 mi round trip for the farther store.

In that area all our stores are already in a renewables program from 3 different utilities so distribution centers not in those programs can be. Same upper Midwest area has a lot of renewables and storage growth going on for reasons beyond not hear oil, gas or coal. Now the wind and solar installations are less expensive than a plant with gas powered turbines.

Truck makers ahead of Tesla have tractors with less range and aiming for low weight. That weight matter and Tesla not publishing more specs is part of some criticism I saw.

The other matter with the transport from distribution centers would be Tesla competition and that is players who did the big natural gas conversations are looking at hydrogen. Paccar (Kenworth, Peterbilt, DAF outside of US) is in partnership with Toyota on the fuel cell technology.

The electric truck and other EV commercial vehicles market is farther along than many might realize. We are a few years into them used for drayage. Ag equipment makers are pursuing electric machines and very far along with automation and autonomous. Small EV utility vehicles are a thing and I see those used by municipalities and a large campus near me.

I have not been behind an electric semi to notice the acceleration but I have witnessed the electric fire truck and bus models in my metro area. They can be noticeably quick.
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Old 12-04-2022, 09:45 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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I've been watching the whole electric scene with a certain enthusiast's interest - a street-legal car that'll turn low-nines @ 150+ holds definite appeal...

A big rig with three times the power of a diesel and reliable downhill braking sounds like a trucker's dream...

On the day the front-line tactical forces of the world's military go 100% electric, I'll be the first in line to buy an EV at my local dealer...

Until then I'll be keeping my gas burners - and for many of the same reasons...

YMMV - literally...
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:05 AM
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I am glad to hear hydrogen cells are getting more of a look. I have always thought they were the answer and could never figure out why they did not take off more. Very small number in California and poor infrastructure as well. But it can be filled just like a regular ICE at a fuel station. IMO, when one considers the cost of mining the lithium, the environmental effects, the pollution when producing the batteries, the disposal of the batteries and the cost of the generation of electricity to charge the vehicles in terms of dollars and cents as well as environmental factors and also causing stress on the grid, it is hard to believe electric is the answer. Finally, before I get attacked we own a 100% electric Hyundai Kona.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:06 AM
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I've been watching the whole electric scene with a certain enthusiast's interest - a street-legal car that'll turn low-nines @ 150+ holds definite appeal...

A big rig with three times the power of a diesel and reliable downhill braking sounds like a trucker's dream...

On the day the front-line tactical forces of the world's military go 100% electric, I'll be the first in line to buy an EV at my local dealer...

Until then I'll be keeping my gas burners - and for many of the same reasons...

YMMV - literally...
Those tree huggers in the pentagon have been way ahead of the curve on energy and sustainability matters. It is inane to think they would choose a wrong sort of power for the location and job but the new products and research they fund illustrate their commitment to energy, materials, power and propulsion.

There are two really interesting vehicles they have mostly from GM's platform. One is sort of Hummer/Jeep looking and one is like a 4-wheel big electric skateboard.

If you count drones, at the moment you could say the first EV war is going on between Russia and Ukraine.

The maybe soon and quite likely, breakthroughs with perovskite solar cells will be a big deal for military as much as everyone else.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:21 AM
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I am glad to hear hydrogen cells are getting more of a look. I have always thought they were the answer and could never figure out why they did not take off more. Very small number in California and poor infrastructure as well. But it can be filled just like a regular ICE at a fuel station. IMO, when one considers the cost of mining the lithium, the environmental effects, the pollution when producing the batteries, the disposal of the batteries and the cost of the generation of electricity to charge the vehicles in terms of dollars and cents as well as environmental factors and also causing stress on the grid, it is hard to believe electric is the answer. Finally, before I get attacked we own a 100% electric Hyundai Kona.
There are a lot of challenges for hydrogen to be distributed like gasoline. That's why the consumer products distribution or drayage are likely where we could see it.

Tangential from managing infrastructure in food, I get news on distribution and costs. All over we have concentration of distribution centers that service many millions of people in a fairly small radius. Same can be said for drayage (moving stuff from our ports). IMO those are places where we will see lots of change, and with big impact.

The vehicles like your Kona, the new GMs this year and Equinox model coming seem fantastic to me. We'll be making a decision for something like those as a mostly metro area chaser, and we have eyes on dual motor vans coming within a few years.

I've done a lot of study on matters you bring up beyond personal curiosity. I understand the negative externalities with batteries but the net advantages. Those advantages will apply to some areas more than others.

You might like Vaclav Smil's latest book but it is WAY more than about EVs or batteries. It's really about the pillars of how we live - ag, oil, steel, cement and ammonia etc.... It's not a typical pundit sort espousing for or against a way. It's just excellent quantification and thoughts on how we live.
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:22 AM
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And the problem with long established succesful vehicles such as these is what exactly? Not sexy anough?

If you are not spoofing
Actually electric delivery vehicles date back to the 1930'S BUT The problem is self evident in the first few seconds of that video, sexy or not, the issue is speed and then there is also range
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Old 12-04-2022, 10:29 AM
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I've been watching the whole electric scene with a certain enthusiast's interest - a street-legal car that'll turn low-nines @ 150+ holds definite appeal...

A big rig with three times the power of a diesel and reliable downhill braking sounds like a trucker's dream...

On the day the front-line tactical forces of the world's military go 100% electric, I'll be the first in line to buy an EV at my local dealer...

Until then I'll be keeping my gas burners - and for many of the same reasons...

YMMV - literally...
OK HERE YA GO https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto...%20the%20event. Boy the NYC traffic must have gotten really spread out, (to non- existent) since I was there years ago, if you can use a 1/4 of 150 MPH car to go stop light to stop light
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Old 12-04-2022, 12:54 PM
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Vague on details, better late than never, but they did it. The 1 megawatt charging caught my interest. I understand the skeptics because other makers beat them to market and publish specifications Tesla is not doing yet.
I’m trying to wrap my head around 1MW charging, and the numbers behind that. My understanding is that they’re going for 1000V, and that ultimately charge rate is determined by the ability of the battery to handle it - but those are some pretty serious numbers, and will presumably require some significant engineering for both delivery and safety.

Not saying it can’t be done, but when I look at my house’s peak consumption of 1MWh in a hot *month*, 1MW at a fast enough rate to charge a truck in a reasonable amount of time seems daunting.

And of course, that electricity has to be generated somewhere.
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:24 PM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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I’m trying to wrap my head around 1MW charging, and the numbers behind that. My understanding is that they’re going for 1000V, and that ultimately charge rate is determined by the ability of the battery to handle it - but those are some pretty serious numbers, and will presumably require some significant engineering for both delivery and safety.

Not saying it can’t be done, but when I look at my house’s peak consumption of 1MWh in a hot *month*, 1MW at a fast enough rate to charge a truck in a reasonable amount of time seems daunting.

And of course, that electricity has to be generated somewhere.
Yes, there have been a lot of skeptic comments on the release or news Tesla made this past week. My understanding is the new megawatt charging is liquid cooled. It seems promising but the lack of overall detail about the truck is to me legitimate criticism.

There are plenty of areas that don't have problems delivering electricity. At same time lots of areas are doing grid and power plant improvements. There is also a standard for comparing states' grids against each other for resilience and other matters.
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Old 12-04-2022, 01:37 PM
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I am glad to hear hydrogen cells are getting more of a look. I have always thought they were the answer and could never figure out why they did not take off more. Very small number in California and poor infrastructure as well. But it can be filled just like a regular ICE at a fuel station. IMO, when one considers the cost of mining the lithium, the environmental effects, the pollution when producing the batteries, the disposal of the batteries and the cost of the generation of electricity to charge the vehicles in terms of dollars and cents as well as environmental factors and also causing stress on the grid, it is hard to believe electric is the answer. Finally, before I get attacked we own a 100% electric Hyundai Kona.
Several years before I retired, which has now been six years, Honda was independently working on hydrogen engine technology. Even though Honda was/is primarily an engine technology company the costs involved in the research and engineering were formidable at that time. Now that Honda has chosen to collaborate with other companies to develop hydrogen technology for automotive use, I would expect to see something coming sooner than later.
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Old 12-04-2022, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
I've been watching the whole electric scene with a certain enthusiast's interest - a street-legal car that'll turn low-nines @ 150+ holds definite appeal...

A big rig with three times the power of a diesel and reliable downhill braking sounds like a trucker's dream...

On the day the front-line tactical forces of the world's military go 100% electric, I'll be the first in line to buy an EV at my local dealer...

Until then I'll be keeping my gas burners - and for many of the same reasons...

YMMV - literally...
This wouldn’t appear to be the most suitable criterion. The military has many needs that the vast majority of civilian users don’t have. But I know you will March to your own drummer (pun intended).
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