The violin/fiddle thread!

[Teleman52]

Don't see a lot of talk about violins around here so I thought I'd start a thread dedicated to it.

I'm just a beginner, I literally bought my first violin today. Hoping to teach myself without lessons. I won't have perfect form I'm sure and I probably won't excel the way I would if I took lessons but hopefully I can get good enough to show up a bluegrass jam and play one day.

I've got a question to start out the thread, when I bought my violin I could choose any of the student level bows I wanted and I think I made a mistake, my bow seems to already be warped, the hair touches the bow no matter how loose it is, which I've read isn't good. The bow was already right when I picked it up so I imagine it's been right for a long time

I'd like to get a better bow that's nice and lightweight that will stand up to being warped. But I'd like to spend no more than 100 or so. Any recommendations? I'm thinking of going with a glasses carbon fiber for about 100

[posternutbag]

Violin is extremely hard to teach yourself. I recommend at least a month of weekly lessons to help smooth off the rough edges that all beginners have. It will be especially difficult if you are coming from guitar because the mechanics are so different.

The Eastman Cadenza 301 is right at $100.00. Not a bad bow. I have a Coda Prodigy which I think is a great beginner bow, but new they are out of your price range. I am actually selling my entire violin kit,including the bow, but not piece by piece so that does you no good.

I do recommend a few additional supplies in addition to violin and bow. You need a good case, rosin (don't skimp and buy cheap rosin, spring for the good stuff), a mute... very important if you live with others, and a shoulder rest. I have had several shoulder rests, but my favorite is the carved Mach 1, I also have a Kuhn that works pretty well.

[Teleman52]

I wish I could do a months lessons but it's just not going to happen. I live in the country, closest teacher will be an hour away and I work a lot. I just do the best I can watching videos of how to hold the violin and bow.

I'm also buying a bag of hill rosin and a kun shoulder rest. I was given a shoulder rest at the shop but it was a 3/4 size. These guys at Sam ash are geniuses

[posternutbag]

Even 1 lesson would help. You don't know what you don't know. When I picked up the violin again I thought I had good technique, but in the first lesson my teacher corrected a number of things that helped tremendously.

I also recommend recording yourself a lot. In the beginning, you will be so focused on mechanics that you will forget to listen to yourself. If you record your practices you can go back and make certain that your up bows are equal in length and volume to your down bows and that you are connecting your notes smoothly.

[Mooh]

Great thread idea.

I have played with a violinist in a guitar/violin duo on and off for 15 years, and had a previous similar duo. It's a killer combination, giving me an incredible range of accompaniment possibilities as a guitarist.

However, the lure of the fiddle has been strong, and as a mandolin/bouzouki player too I know the fingerings, and as a fretless bass player I have a clue about finger placement and intonation.

Enter the family fiddle. My sister inherited our grandfather's Wolff Brothers violin, made in Germany in 1888. It has been restored and plays and sounds fantastic in the right hands. My sister decided not to pursue playing it, as she did as a child, and has loaned it to me, very long term.

(None of the family really heard it played well as our grandfather died before we were born, that is until my duo mate played it all evening in the jam that developed from my 50th birthday party. I swear my Mum and grandfather were there in spirit.)

Anyway, I don't play it as much as a should. I hack out a few airs and hymns, improvise a little, and hold on to it with love, if not skill.

I should apply myself to it better.

[harpon]

This is the age of internet! You CAN learn all kinds of things from that alone.

I also go to the fiddle hangout forum site
http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhangout/videos.asp

Go to the archive link there and then to the "jukebox"

I'm still in my first year on fiddle, but I go there, click on "celtic" and play along as best as I can, or just get a lick here and there-and really making progress.

One thing about a fiddle-

the strings are progressively one key from the next- adding another sharp to the sclae, if you resolve to that string- which is very common-

so the strings are from bass to treble

G with the F sharp
D with F AND C sharp
A with F AND G And C sharps
and the E string at the top with four flats/sharps F and G and and C and D

the trap is usually falling into another key if you go across the strings too far, so you have to give ome thought to the scales, particulary in the 4 open string keys- which are often resolved to.

I spent last evening lowering the actions on my fiddle and viola, and every time I do I find I want to go further- the lower the action the easier to play, and I can't believe I played as high as I did for most of these past months!

Also- violinists will try to act like you can't do ANYTHING without paying a luthier lots of money to do it- they are quite defensive of their craft- but you can extract information with the search engine if they balk at your questions otherwise.

I grind the bridges down with an electric drill with a grinding bit-
maple is VERY HARD otherwise!

really like this one: http://www.fiddlehangout.com/myhango...8908&archived=

it's not rock and roll, but I like it!

So far I've just used cheap chinese bows that came with the fiddles-
I ordered on for $6 on ebay- it came snapped in shipping and the vendor in Jersey replaced it with another with no hassle- I think they are more like $8 now.

[Mooh]

I like the carbon bows I've heard, but I ended up with an Eastman bow, rehaired by a pro from Ottawa (his name escapes me right now). The original hair was good but since I had the opportunity for an upgrade, I took it. Several players tried out several bows and the Eastman was the one almost everyone liked...so I bought it.

[scottishrogue]

I'm just beginning to teach myself the violin, and using one that I borrowed from a friend. Naturally, I have a lot of questions, but I think it would be to my advantage to ask how does someone (me) figure out what violin to purchase. They range in price from $50 to $3000 and even more. And they all sound pretty much the same (to me), as I have no knowledge or experience, with an untrained ear. They have violins for students, intermediates, advanced players, but I feel overwhelmed. Should I look for a certain brand, or a copy of a famous violin maker. How does one determine the build quality of a violin? Should I look for solid carved spruce over flamed maple? Do they make laminated backs & sides? The only thing I'm sure of is I will get a 4/4 full-size model. Any recommendations would be very much appreciated. Help!

Glen

[jtc232]

I am just starting back playing after a long lay off (30yrs) I started playing in 5th grade and played violin and cello until I graduated high school. I ordered a fiddle from thebluegrassshack.com and couldn't be happier. The have sound bites of all their fiddles on the web sight and have a large selection new and used from 150.00 up. They set up and test all of them and have a good return policy. Great people to deal with would recommend giving them a look.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

I'm just beginning to teach myself the violin, and using one that I borrowed from a friend. Naturally, I have a lot of questions, but I think it would be to my advantage to ask how does someone (me) figure out what violin to purchase. They range in price from $50 to $3000 and even more. And they all sound pretty much the same (to me), as I have no knowledge or experience, with an untrained ear. They have violins for students, intermediates, advanced players, but I feel overwhelmed. Should I look for a certain brand, or a copy of a famous violin maker. How does one determine the build quality of a violin? Should I look for solid carved spruce over flamed maple? Do they make laminated backs & sides? The only thing I'm sure of is I will get a 4/4 full-size model. Any recommendations would be very much appreciated. Help!

Glen

I would place finding a reputable violin shop at the top of my priority list. You can buy a violin online for $29.99, but it will be unplayable. You won't get lucky and get a good one; you will get a violin shaped object (VSO).

There are really 2 advantages to a using a good violin shop.
1) They can answer many of your questions.

2) Most violin shops rent and most of your monthly rental can be applied later to the purchase of a violin. This is a very good way to "test the waters" without making a huge investment. Along the same vein, most violin shops will give you 100% credit when you trade in an instrument. You could therefore rent a $1500 violin for $50.00 a month for six months and then apply most of that $300.00 as a credit towards the purchase of a violin. Lets say you buy the $1500 violin and then 3 years later, you decide to upgrade. 100% of that $1500 trade-in could be applied to the purchase of a new instrument.

As to brands, my first vote is Eastman. Great instruments for the money. Samuel Shen are also nice; they tend to have a brighter sound. Both start around $700. Violins are MUCH more expensive than guitars. I would play a $200 Yamaha guitar on stage without blinking an eye. I would not play a $200 violin anywhere.

Remember, when you buy your violin kit, you need an instrument, a bow, a case, a mute and a shoulder rest. Despite claims of $6.00 bows, I would leave at least 25% of my budget for the above accessories.

Used gear is another route. I have actually been thinking about selling my beginner violin kit. This is a good way to get everything you need for a steal. Every spring, tons of kids decide that they don't want to play middle/high school strings any more and the market gets flooded with fully stocked kits.

[scottishrogue]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

I would place finding a reputable violin shop at the top of my priority list. Used gear is another route. I have actually been thinking about selling my beginner violin kit. This is a good way to get everything you need for a steal.

Thanks for the tips. Used could be a way to snap a high-quality violin at a great price. I would guess that most music shops take in a lot of trades. Does anyone have any experience with a Cremona brand violin? Does the country of manufacture make a difference in the price?

One, no 2 other questions. Some violins have 4 fine tuners and others have only a single fine tuner. Is there any reason for that? What are the best strings to use?

Glen

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

Thanks for the tips. Used could be a way to snap a high-quality violin at a great price. I would guess that most music shops take in a lot of trades. Does anyone have any experience with a Cremona brand violin? Does the country of manufacture make a difference in the price?

One, no 2 other questions. Some violins have 4 fine tuners and others have only a single fine tuner. Is there any reason for that? What are the best strings to use?

Glen

I will answer your last question first. Get a violin with 4 fine tuners. Really fine violins (several thousand dollars plus) often have only one fine tuner on the high E string. Violin tuning pegs are antiquated, outdated technology and fine tuners make it easier for the beginner to tune appropriately. The E string is especially finicky, so even professional violinists need a fine tuner on the E, even when they can get away without fine tuners on the G,D and A strings.

I would just use whatever strings come on the violin. Violin strings in general last much longer than guitar strings. I change my guitar strings after 20-30 hours of playing; I change my violin strings twice a year. Later on, once you know what sound you are chasing, you can buy strings that help you achieve your goals, but in the beginning you will be fighting to just make real notes.

There are tons of used violins both for private sale and at violin shops. I have a violin for sale right now, but at the risk of hurting that sale, I would highly recommend a beginner going through a reputable string instrument shop.

The trade-in I mentioned earlier is a great feature of course, but beyond that, a violin shop can answer questions and perform a set-up on a new or used instrument. Even new instruments from reputable violin makers need a set-up. If you are super handy you might could do it yourself, but a violin setup involves planing the fingerboard, changing the action, fitting the tuning pegs and the chin rest, adjusting the sound post and fitting the bridge. I see lots of violins that kids get from band instrument shops that have poorly fitting bridges.

This is a super important distinction. A reputable string shop does not sell horns or guitars, it sells violins, violas, cellos and basses. Some will call me a snob, but there is a difference. Violin is a hard instrument to learn under the best of circumstances, fighting your equipment is a headache you don't need.

Speaking of headaches, I would avoid Cremona stringed instruments.

[scottishrogue]

Thanks for your suggestions and information. I noticed the names of the 4 strings are the same as guitar strings. Is it possible to use my guitar tuner to tune a violin?

Glen

[DesertTwang]

edited because of wrong subforum

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

Thanks for your suggestions and information. I noticed the names of the 4 strings are the same as guitar strings. Is it possible to use my guitar tuner to tune a violin?

Glen

Of course. The tuner only measures vibrations and translates them into a pitch. It doesn't know what instrument it is attached to, as long as it vibrates.