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  #31  
Old 05-25-2018, 02:46 PM
BT55 BT55 is offline
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Default Rainsong model comparison question

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Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I'm pretty trim, so I have no cushioning. I went as far as suggesting a rib bevel to Emerald, after all if they can incorporate an arm bevel, it would seem a rib bevel would be something they could do.

Plan for the future - cushions eventually become standard equipment
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  #32  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:27 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Plan for the future - cushions eventually become standard equipment
Chicks dig the cushy look. Well... some. OK... one; and I married her before getting cushy. Fortunately, she still goes for the guitar player.
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2018, 04:44 PM
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You guys are funny! At 54, I work very hard to be padding-free. Maybe there’ll be a time, but not if I am still able to work out.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I hope you all enjoy the weekend!
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  #34  
Old 05-26-2018, 07:51 AM
muser muser is offline
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Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
My plan is to hang the OM in the house as my "always available" guitar, and bring the WS to gigs.

How would you compare the playing comfort of the Rainsong WS and OM bodies when played sitting down without a strap? It's been years since I last played a WS but I remember its depth making an impression. Is the sharp edge where the top meets the sides uncomfortable for your right forearm?

I'm mulling a Rainsong CH-WS, CH-OM or an Emerald X20 as an all-weather (I live in tropical Southeast Asia) alternative to my Martin GPC-15ME (which, with a depth of 4.5", is halfway between the depth of a WS and OM), but none of them has that perfect combo of unidirectional CF top, short scale and contoured/bevelled body.

Oh yes, first post here after lurking for a while, so hi folks, and thanks for sharing all your knowledge and advice.
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  #35  
Old 05-26-2018, 08:36 AM
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mikealpine mikealpine is offline
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Hi Muser, and welcome!

Sitting and playing, the OM is more comfortable, and is about as small as I will go on a guitar I play regularly. I was also comfortable with the WS, but there was a difference. The WS is about 3/8" deeper than my Taylor.

Please keep in mind I describe myself as an oddly shaped human, like a moderately well built leprechaun (grin). I'm not tall, 5'5" on a warm day, but don't like the feel of smaller acoustic guitars. I work out, am athletically built with no fat on my ribs and am sensitive to where a guitar's trailing edge hits my rib cage (thus the X20 didn't work for me, though it is a somewhat smaller guitar). If the guitar kind of snugs up under my armpit, against my chest muscles, that's great. I rest my arm on the upper side wall and the crease of my elbow naturally hits that leading front edge, so I don't feel it digging into anything.

I don't know if budget is a concern, or how shipping would work, but Ted at LA Guitar Sales has a short scale Black Ice WS that looks pretty special.

Good luck with the search, I hope I was able to help a bit!
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2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW
2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2
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  #36  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I was also comfortable with the WS, but there was a difference. The WS is about 3/8" deeper than my Taylor.


...

I rest my arm on the upper side wall and the crease of my elbow naturally hits that leading front edge, so I don't feel it digging into anything.


...


I don't know if budget is a concern, or how shipping would work, but Ted at LA Guitar Sales has a short scale Black Ice WS that looks pretty special.

Thanks for replying in such detail, that's definitely helpful!

Sounds like a WS might actually be livable for me, even though I'm 5'10", in my forties and probably have a bit more padding than you (my kids would probably say more than a bit) even though I've been trying to work out.

Thanks for the heads up on the Black Ice WS but I actually don't like Rainsong's standard bling (abalone, etc), so the minimalism of the CH range is really appealing, and lower cost is always nice. Plus, Ted's international shipping rates aren't attractive (I got a quote from him) although I'm well aware of his sterling reputation for both aggressive pricing and reliability for Stateside folks.

The search continues. Now if I can just stop obsessing about stainless steel frets vs nickel silver for all the CF options on the market...
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  #37  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:25 AM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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If the fit against your body is a major concern...you can't ignore the Emeralds. Most comfortable that I have tried/owned. Good Luck with your search.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by muser View Post
Thanks for replying in such detail, that's definitely helpful!

Sounds like a WS might actually be livable for me, even though I'm 5'10", in my forties and probably have a bit more padding than you (my kids would probably say more than a bit) even though I've been trying to work out.

Thanks for the heads up on the Black Ice WS but I actually don't like Rainsong's standard bling (abalone, etc), so the minimalism of the CH range is really appealing, and lower cost is always nice. Plus, Ted's international shipping rates aren't attractive (I got a quote from him) although I'm well aware of his sterling reputation for both aggressive pricing and reliability for Stateside folks.

The search continues. Now if I can just stop obsessing about stainless steel frets vs nickel silver for all the CF options on the market...

Yeah, at 54 the fitness challenge is real, lol. I found a few good routines to purchase that helped me tremendously. PM me if you want any details.

I figured Ted's shipping would exclude him. For what it's worth, I found the CH too warm. Though not muddy, it didn't give off the highs that I want to hear. According to Rainsong, it is their currently most popular model, but I would probably opt for the H, if that ever comes along in a short scale, or some other less ornamented WS short scale. I'm still very torn between an H-WS, Classic and BI. I think the classic fits where I want it to be, can't find one with a retailer willing to offer a deal. I wish I had been able to A/B a Hybrid vs a Black Ice. I really like the tone of my H-OM, great volume, has been my main gigging acoustic because of how easy it is to own and play.

Enjoy the hunt!
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2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW
2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2
2017 Rainsong BI-WS1000N2
2013 Chris Ensor Concert - Port Orford Cedar/Wenge
1980ish Takamine EF363 complete with irreplaceable memories
A bunch of electrics (too many!!)
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  #39  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:28 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Welcome aboard, Muser. Finding the right fit is a personal thing. For a lot of years, I tried guitars, looking for "the right" fit, sound, and feel. The first time I saw an arm rest bevel was a revelation! The fact that carbon fiber can be molded so there aren't sharp edges where your ribs, upper arm, or forearm contact the guitar absolutely changed how I consider any guitar. Yes, the sound has to be good - but comfort means you will pick it up and play it more.

Neck shapes, scale, and width matter.

My first carbon fiber was a RainSong - the Shorty (or currently, the CH-OM) is close enough to a Taylor Grand Concert that the "feel" and comfort are similar. I felt OK ordering that RainSong without trying it first because there was a known similar. I thoroughly enjoyed the Shorty, but sold it because it was the least comfortable of my carbon fiber guitars and it just wasn't getting any playing time.

As I have (ahem) matured, I am less willing to "suffer for my art." In this journey of guitar playing, you learn about set-ups, string material, and body shapes and sizes that work best for you. Not to sound like a personals ad, I am 5'9" (used to be 5' 10"), 195 pounds, and built for comfort rather than speed. (I also like rainbows, sunsets, and long walks on the beach, but I am digressing.) Other guitar manufacturers, especially those utilizing carbon fiber pay attention to the ergonomics. From my perspective, RainSong is the most "traditional" of the carbon fiber manufacturers, making their guitars in shapes similar to the wood guys. Other manufacturers have taken advantage of the arm rest bevels, rounded edges, compound curve cutaways, etc to make the guitar a better fit for the (typical) human body.

My Emeralds (X20 and X7) are far beyond any RainSong in terms of comfort (for me). I also prefer their sound. I in no way intend this to be a "my guitar is better than your guitar" exercise. Sometimes you have to try something different to see if that different is better, for each individual. I have been fortunate to be able to try a lot of carbon fiber guitars since I first found what they bring to the table.

In the 60s and 70s, I was a Gibson guy. Then an Ovation guy for 14 years. Then a series of Taylors (4 of which I still have). I'm not big on buying and selling guitars, but when I find something that works/sounds/feels better, I am willing to make a change. These days, I am a guitar guy - I enjoy the instruments I have, but the Emeralds get almost all my attention. Carbon fiber just makes sense, and the stability, tone, and comfort do it for me.

I have been accused here of being "a shill" for Emerald, or at the very least a "fan boi." Not the case - I was interested in trying the McPherson CF models and the Savoy this past year... all nice guitars. None that, for me, outdid my comparable Emeralds in terms of tone or comfort.

RainSongs are definitely the easiest to find in a music store. I read that they make more CF guitars than any other manufacturer. What is important to me isn't who makes the most, but rather who makes what best works for me. I only mention this because of your "might actually be livable for me" comment. I could have saved a lot of money over the years if I had known about all the other options out there (wood and CF).

Good luck with the search.
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  #40  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:47 AM
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Jim, if you have any connection to Allistair/Emerald and can get them to mold a rib bevel on the X20, maybe even develop an X25 (slightly larger) with both arm and rib bevels, I’d buy in a heartbeat! Love their look, recall really liking the sound. Thanks, and have a great weekend!
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2013 Joel Stehr Dreadnought - Carpathian/Malaysian BW
2014 RainSong H-OM1000N2
2017 Rainsong BI-WS1000N2
2013 Chris Ensor Concert - Port Orford Cedar/Wenge
1980ish Takamine EF363 complete with irreplaceable memories
A bunch of electrics (too many!!)
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  #41  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:23 PM
kramster kramster is offline
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Welcome indeed muser...who wants to be an end user... of a CF.. (sorry rhythm headed today being John Wayne's birthday and all)... anyway...for some reason I have a CH-OM, CH-WS, and an X-20 around here somewhere... The CH-OM is more comfy than the CH-WS according to me and most of my guitar playing friends and well balanced sound...the WS is a wee bigger and a bit richer sound. Emerald X-20 is very comfy and a richer still sounding. If I had only one of the 3 I'd be a happy young man...well ok... happy used to be young man ...
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  #42  
Old 05-26-2018, 03:07 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I would probably opt for the H, if that ever comes along in a short scale, or some other less ornamented WS short scale.
You can order any of the RS guitars with a 12 fret neck, not sure if that's what you mean by "short scale" or not.
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  #43  
Old 05-26-2018, 03:17 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
Jim, if you have any connection to Allistair/Emerald and can get them to mold a rib bevel on the X20, maybe even develop an X25 (slightly larger) with both arm and rib bevels, I’d buy in a heartbeat! Love their look, recall really liking the sound. Thanks, and have a great weekend!
I think Evan and Kramster have an in; at least they keep telling me that they know stuff I don't know. Which is pretty easy. But, they're probably referring to the Emerald unveiling which will be happening soon (for their 20th anniversary). I am waiting to see what the "4 new models" will be.

From my perspective, my X20 is a big guitar. A big, comfortable guitar with great tone.
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  #44  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:01 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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.....It's been years since I last played a WS but I remember its depth making an impression. Is the sharp edge where the top meets the sides uncomfortable for your right forearm?.....
Muser, it sometimes helps to let us know where you are. Then we won't make suggestions that are off target.

As for playing comfort, we currently own a Rainsong WS-1000, CA Cargo, Emerald X20, X20-12 and X7, and a Blackbird Lucky 13. The bevels and contours of the Emerald's have spoiled me, and I am starting to dislike playing a square-edged guitar, either CF or wood. I'm 6'-6" and 300# (think aging football lineman) so I have no problem reaching around anything, but still I play with a strap virtually 100% of the time now. The last couple of longer practice sessions with my Lucky 13 have proven a bit uncomfortable, now that I'm getting used to the bevels of the X20. I may have to add a John Pearse armrest to mitigate that edge, something I've never had to do before. Plus the X20 tone sounds really, really good -- very warm and woody.

Tonally the WS-1000 classic is bigger and bolder than the OM-1000. Think D-28 versus 000-28. Both are nice, and the OM would record better via microphone, but the WS has more raw horsepower acoustically. It competes well at bluegrass jams. While it is unlikely we'll ever part with the WS-1000, I can actually foresee the day when all but the X20 and X7 are gone. They command the lion's share of the play time since they arrived.
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  #45  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:19 PM
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the "4 new models"

Wait... what now...4 you say??
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