Powered Speaker rec

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

That deep mode is the worst feature on those speakers, IMO.

I don’t use it a lot but I haven’t heard that criticism before. Still, I find the standard setting to still have more low end than the new versions.

[varmonter]

at low volume dm can sound ok. But a k10 over
a sub in sub mode sounds much better.
I never use deep mode playing out.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by zhunter

I guess it depends on whether they are pushed much but I'm a say no to the deep mode. I don't think even the 12" speakers can handle the deep mode content. While we are not a loud rock band, we do play with some level. At our volumes, deep adds a murky quality to my ear. It might work at really low volume though. Kind of like a loudness button on a stereo.

That is why they put it on a switch.

hunter

Bass sells speakers. Most consumer grade speakers are pretty bass-hyped. I rarely want everything running through my tops unless it’s a low volume restaurant gig. Everything else gets a sub and an active crossover.

I have a rock n roller cart which makes load in easy, and I ask for help from the busboys if needed. They usually offer before I ever have to ask. I’ll admit that I bring a lot more than anybody that I know.

It’s not about volume, it’s about fullness. I hear so many cats that are pushing powered two-ways to try to achieve what I can do at a much lower volume and a much more relaxed speaker by using each piece as it was designed.

They seem to be trying to make you “feel it,” but all I feel in those situations is ear fatigue. I’m able to sound much fuller at lower volumes and with the crossover, I can tune it to the room so things aren’t boomy, and its easier to balance the tops and bottoms.

I’m able to remain easier on the ears as a result. Speaker placement is key too. I don’t feel like I have to cover every inch of the room with sound. I tend to keep speakers from pointing at the bar so that the bartenders can hear drink orders and they appreciate it.

Also: if you notice the subwoofer, you’re using it wrong.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

Yamaha DBR12.

Yes, Yamaha DBR12.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Bass sells speakers. Most consumer grade speakers are pretty bass-hyped. I rarely want everything running through my tops unless it’s a low volume restaurant gig. Everything else gets a sub and an active crossover.

I have a rock n roller cart which makes load in easy, and I ask for help from the busboys if needed. They usually offer before I ever have to ask. I’ll admit that I bring a lot more than anybody that I know.

It’s not about volume, it’s about fullness. I hear so many cats that are pushing powered two-ways to try to achieve what I can do at a much lower volume and a much more relaxed speaker by using each piece as it was designed.

They seem to be trying to make you “feel it,” but all I feel in those situations is ear fatigue. I’m able to sound much fuller at lower volumes and with the crossover, I can tune it to the room so things aren’t boomy, and its easier to balance the tops and bottoms.

I’m able to remain easier on the ears as a result. Speaker placement is key too. I don’t feel like I have to cover every inch of the room with sound. I tend to keep speakers from pointing at the bar so that the bartenders can hear drink orders and they appreciate it.

Also: if you notice the subwoofer, you’re using it wrong.

Good points for sure. A lot of budget speakers definitely enhance the bass to make the overall tone seem a bit more impressive. However, when I say that the original K's have more low end, I don't mean this type of enhanced bass, they just seem to be a lot more balanced where as the new K's are very high/mid focused. I typically never use the "deep" mode with my K12's but sometimes when I am playing music from my phone or laptop, I will engage it on one of the K12's, just to fill out the low end a bit more.

With that said, I have considered adding subs to my set up for years but I have to be honest, the two K12's just kill on their own. We are a four piece band (bass, two acoustic guitars and fiddle). I realize a sub would provide even more low end but I find the tone we get right now to just be great. That and it's a far more portable set up.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Good points for sure. A lot of budget speakers definitely enhance the bass to make the overall tone seem a bit more impressive. However, when I say that the original K's have more low end, I don't mean this type of enhanced bass, they just seem to be a lot more balanced where as the new K's are very high/mid focused. I typically never use the "deep" mode with my K12's but sometimes when I am playing music from my phone or laptop, I will engage it on one of the K12's, just to fill out the low end a bit more.

With that said, I have considered adding subs to my set up for years but I have to be honest, the two K12's just kill on their own. We are a four piece band (bass, two acoustic guitars and fiddle). I realize a sub would provide even more low end but I find the tone we get right now to just be great. That and it's a far more portable set up.

Two k12 s and an analog board are the best sound our band ever had.
We went with k10 and the compromise was worth the bulk weight differential.
But those 12s were awesome. i too like the
older k series better than the .2s. Now weve gone to a tm16 and a Bose tower.
This compromise may make me leave. Its that
much of a difference. the rest of the group is enamoured with bose. They dont
get it.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by varmonter

Two k12 s and an analog board are the best sound our band ever had.
We went with k10 and the compromise was worth the bulk weight differential.
But those 12s were awesome. i too like the
older k series better than the .2s. Now weve gone to a tm16 and a Bose tower.
This compromise may make me leave. Its that
much of a difference. the rest of the group is enamoured with bose. They dont
get it.

I actually think the K10's sound better than the K12's. Especially for acoustic instruments. More balanced with a quicker recovery time.

Originally Posted by Petty1818

With that said, I have considered adding subs to my set up for years but I have to be honest, the two K12's just kill on their own. We are a four piece band (bass, two acoustic guitars and fiddle). I realize a sub would provide even more low end but I find the tone we get right now to just be great. That and it's a far more portable set up.

Depends on what you're running through them. If the bass is running through them, I'd suggest a sub and crossover. You might be pleasantly surprised. You are right about a sub not making things more portable though!

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Bass sells speakers. Most consumer grade speakers are pretty bass-hyped. I rarely want everything running through my tops unless it’s a low volume restaurant gig. Everything else gets a sub and an active crossover.

I have a rock n roller cart which makes load in easy, and I ask for help from the busboys if needed. They usually offer before I ever have to ask. I’ll admit that I bring a lot more than anybody that I know.

It’s not about volume, it’s about fullness. I hear so many cats that are pushing powered two-ways to try to achieve what I can do at a much lower volume and a much more relaxed speaker by using each piece as it was designed.

They seem to be trying to make you “feel it,” but all I feel in those situations is ear fatigue. I’m able to sound much fuller at lower volumes and with the crossover, I can tune it to the room so things aren’t boomy, and its easier to balance the tops and bottoms.

I’m able to remain easier on the ears as a result. Speaker placement is key too. I don’t feel like I have to cover every inch of the room with sound. I tend to keep speakers from pointing at the bar so that the bartenders can hear drink orders and they appreciate it.

Also: if you notice the subwoofer, you’re using it wrong.

Not every time but many times I will run the QSCs on Ext Sub setting even though we don't use an external sub. That engages the 100 hz high pass filter. I find cutting the deep lows is the easiest way to tighten up bass and then I can add bass if needed. More bass less rumble. Rolling off bass to tighten up the bottom is an design strategy on electric guitar amps often accomplished with hardwired circuit components. The switchable low pass filter feature is even better. I get it some like that super lower bass. I am not a fan.

The deep mode seems like the opposite approach to me. Not to mention, amplifying that super low bass is a power suck. I'd rather use the watts where I hear the most benefit.

hunter

[sbmackie]

Jon,
So, to your gigs, you have no eq, just effects if necessary. Straight from your instruments to effects into the powered speaker with an out from the speaker to a sub woofer?
Thanks

QUOTE=jonfields45;6083051]I think any of the lower end name brand (QSC, Yamaha, JBL, Makie, EV...) powered PA speakers will do the job. I like the CP8 but I understand EV has a new 8" model in the same price range that is even lighter.

For my money I would avoid a guitar amp. They are all quirky and if you like the quirks they are wonderful and if you don't... A simple flat frequency response with a few switchable options for floor monitor, pole mount, and external sub are all you really need. If you want to use the PA speaker without your amp (as I do) then a guitar preamp pedal will give you the missing knobs and effects. I've even stopped bringing our mixer to gigs. In the final analysis it was just another set of redundant volume, EQ, and effects controls to be mistakenly set wrong. We are using a TRS cable to put our guitars into the CP8's 3.5mm stereo input and an XLR Y-cable for the two (identical SM58) mics. We played a huge outdoors gig last Friday set up this way and even with the 6 dB hit for the XLR Y-cable we still had plenty of headroom to set the mics as loud as required.[/QUOTE]

[sbmackie]

Sub-woofer's are nice to have, but unnecessary in a small to medium room. We may have an accoustic bass in the mix. Electric bass will be through a bass amp and stage mixed (hah...as if I know what I'm doing).
True, False, or subjective and I'll have to give it a listen make my own call?
I appreciate the input and spirited discussion. My first open mic went well, but the house system proved cumbersome, and I am gaining knowledge
Cheers
Scott

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Not every time but many times I will run the QSCs on Ext Sub setting even though we don't use an external sub. That engages the 100 hz high pass filter. I find cutting the deep lows is the easiest way to tighten up bass and then I can add bass if needed. More bass less rumble. Rolling off bass to tighten up the bottom is an design strategy on electric guitar amps often accomplished with hardwired circuit components. The switchable low pass filter feature is even better. I get it some like that super lower bass. I am not a fan.

The deep mode seems like the opposite approach to me. Not to mention, amplifying that super low bass is a power suck. I'd rather use the watts where I hear the most benefit.

hunter

I did the same thing with the ext sub setting and added what I needed at the board when I had my K10’s. I don’t think I ever needed to add bass. I always use negative EQ anyway though.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by sbmackie

Sub-woofer's are nice to have, but unnecessary in a small to medium room. We may have an accoustic bass in the mix. Electric bass will be through a bass amp and stage mixed (hah...as if I know what I'm doing).
True, False, or subjective and I'll have to give it a listen make my own call?
I appreciate the input and spirited discussion. My first open mic went well, but the house system proved cumbersome, and I am gaining knowledge
Cheers
Scott

You can definitely get by without them, but that doesn’t make them unnecessary.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by sbmackie

Jon,
So, to your gigs, you have no eq, just effects if necessary. Straight from your instruments to effects into the powered speaker with an out from the speaker to a sub woofer?
Thanks

I've got a few Boss pedals (compression, EQ, reverb, looper) and my duo partner uses just a Boss GE7 and a tuner pedal (primarily as a mute for changing instruments). Lately I've been using a Zoom G1Four to cover all my pedal requirements. It's been fun but I would not recommend it as being robust enough physically for serious use (without taking care to not abuse it).

He has volume and tone on his guitars/bass and the GE7 on the floor. At the moment my guitars have no controls and I do everything with the floor pedal. The G1Four has four knobs dedicated to master volume/bass/middle/treble in play mode and it retains the previous level settings across power cycling.

I set the mic volumes at the back of the CP8 based on the size of the room (or outdoor event) and how close the nearest people are to us. I set the 3.5mm stereo input an eighth turn less than the mics (for no real good reason but I think it provides my partner with a familiar relative volume between his instruments and his mic). Then I set the height of the CP8 stand to keep the volume at our mics reasonable. Then we set the guitar volumes with our floor pedals. I don't own a subwoofer but in theory we could ad one. We've now played two gigs this way and it is not hard.

More than once someone brushed a button on the mixer (maybe even me) or forgot to check if ALL the knobs made it to the gig undisturbed from the last one, and it was a (minor) pain to get right. Since we never use the EQ on the mixer or its effects (and the few times someone brought a mic to join us for a few songs it was not the best musical performance) I started to feel the mixer was a liability... Also over the years if I adjusted some other person's instrument volume at my mixer I generally found they would override my action with their controls.

[sbmackie]

Jon,
Please forgive the ignorant question, but what is the 3.5 cable used for?

Thanks
Scott

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by sbmackie

Jon,
Please forgive the ignorant question, but what is the 3.5 cable used for?

Thanks
Scott

The CP8 has two channels, one has a mic level option and I'm using the XLR Y-cable into it for our two SM58s. The other is only line level with XLR, 1/4" TS, and 3.5mm TRS (~1/8" stereo like the headphone jack on an iPod) options. I am using the last option as it gives me an active mixer from stereo (two guitars) to mono (the speaker).

Another option would be a simple resistance mixer (for active guitars or pedals into a line input a good solution is two 5K ohm resistors).