Build Thread: Kraut Modified Dreadnought

[jperryrocks]

That is a pretty incredible offer that someone would do that.

The $1500 alone is nice, but for another luthier to give up an entire credit for a guitar in that price range is something unheard of before. Especially when you're talking ~$10,000.

It's almost like a double whammy you have. The one $~10,000 guitar you're not happy with, and other $1500 for a deposit on a guitar that will never get built.

What a whole bunch of money just up in the air and its got to be very stressful.

I'm a firm believer in good karma, though. If you're being honest, something good will happen to right the ship so to speak.

[mikealpine]

Seriously amazing offers!

I will admit that if I didn't already have a commission arranged, I'd be concerned. However I wouldn't be so concerned as to not commission one. As my build hasn't quite started yet, I am being much more cautious and clear about my desires an expectations. I am reopening the discussion on body size, wood choices, reinforcing my playing style, and so on to do my best to give my builder and my guitar the greatest chance of success.

[bdm0509]

Juston-

Good for you. You know from our offline dealings I want nothing more than for you to have a guitar you love. (Selfishly, I want the same for myself!) I posted earlier not in reference to you, as you've been pretty darn open throughout, but toward what began to feel like a piling on by others. (And that's my own opinion, nothing more.)

I'm thrilled you've been given options that fit your needs better than the limited ones you had previously.

I also strongly suspect that the luthiers reaching out to you are setting a new bar for both the luthier community and for the phrase "standing behind a guitar." (Or perhaps more accurately, we're all seeing a bit more clearly the disparity between builders and how they handle these issues.)

Good for them, and good for you.

-B

[TWork]

I thought the same thing and then after a little more thought it seems less like piling on and more a situation where one side just isn't represented.

I don't know either Juston or Ray. I believe what Juston is saying. However, I'm sure that Ray would paint a different picture. There's always another story and we haven't heard it. We haven't seen builders participate in the conversation and provide the luthier's perspective because there's simply no upside to doing so.

I would imagine Ray's thinking would probably be along the lines of "I've got a customer who has only had a guitar for a very short period of time, refuses to let me see the guitar, yet wants to have protracted monologue on a very popular website. Too much stress to let me evaluate, but not too stressed to talk about it." I don't know Ray but typically people don't go into lutherie because they're people-people or maybe he has too much other work to do -- we don't know. And, I don't believe there's any obligation on Ray's part to have the conversation in this forum.

I'm sure Ray didn't send out a guitar he thought squarely missed the mark, so from his perspective there's a rush to judgment and before he knows it there's a thread with 30k views. I think someone earlier said that "the ball is in Ray's court." Given the guy hasn't had an opportunity to re-evaluate the guitar, not sure how it's in his court.

Lastly, it's a nice gesture that some other folks have stepped up to make it right. I hope I'd be so lucky were I to find myself in Juston's situation. That said, I think it's easy to folks to forget that the guitar is beautiful and sounds great -- and still has a good deal of value in the open market for someone who finds it suits their tastes (and Juston has been very fair in making this point).

T.

Originally Posted by bdm0509

I posted earlier not in reference to you, as you've been pretty darn open throughout, but toward what began to feel like a piling on by others. (And that's my own opinion, nothing more.)

[bdm0509]

Originally Posted by TWork

I thought the same thing and then after a little more thought it seems less like piling on and more a situation where one side just isn't represented.

T.

Well said.

-B

[steveh]

Originally Posted by justonwo

another luthier has offered to give me a $1500 credit toward the purchase of one of their guitars.

$1500 isn't much off a Somogyi.








Sorry - couldn't resist that!

Seriously, what generous folks, esp the chap offering to take the whole guitar. Unbelievable. I'm sure they're right though; 30k views of your experience really does focus the mind on the fact that you cannot 100% guarantee what you're going to get with a build.

I will certainly be looking at the returns policy of any future build of mine, something I've just not bothered to do before. This thread has a lot of lessons for all of us from all sorts of perspectives, both buyers and luthiers.

Cheers,
Steve

[Tony_in_NYC]

Originally Posted by justonwo

The use of humor or other similar instruments to evoke laughter or laughter by-products is strictly forbidden in this thread.

Sadly, any "laughter" my posts may elicit, is comprised of almost 90% Laughter byproducts. I have been trying to increase the actual "Laugh" content for years, but I seem to be better at riding on the coattails of other people's 100% laugh sauce. In the meantime, I still have not seen one picture of Justone's sister. Am I in the wrong thread?

[jperryrocks]

If it was me, I'd probably try to clear things up with ray first.

It's a gracious offer by another builder, but I woundn't want to make a commitment on another 5 figure guitar. ....clear up the divorce before you buy another ring if that makes sense.

Sometimes you need to take a step back and re access things.

When my build went bad in the summer of 2008, it made me want to look at things as a whole. What I really need to be happy and my expectations.

I bought cheaper off the rack guitars and I didn't want to have the stress of worrying about another $4000 guitar.

Almost 5 years later, I'm comfortable with getting back into the game and buying a more expensive custom guitar.

[LouieAtienza]

As unpleasant as it may seem to be now, I'd agree that the best thing to do is confront the builder with my concerns, and give him every opportunity to rectify them. Just to say that this can't be done because of some unpleasantries in a couple other threads and not wanting to deal with the stress just doesn't sit right with me; it's almost a cop-out. It's not my aesthetic taste, but this guitar is a beautiful work of art and craftsmanship, that took a lot of man-hours to complete. If the guitar was sent back right away after these concerns came about, and then still the issues were not resolved, then maybe there'd be a stronger case to be made. But it seems that everything was done to NOT send this guitar back.

Who would know also if this sudden change of tone occured because of something mundane, like a trussrod loosening up just a tad, or maybe a bum piece of saddle material? No matter how perfect the climate is, it's still a wood box fighting string tension, and things happen. Just writing this off because "others in the know say so" or "I don't want to go through emotional stress" is silly...

[justonwo]

The guitar has been sold to a very friendly buyer who was excited about the sound from the clips (and all of the cool design features and aesthetics in the guitar. Ray has generously offered to extend the warranty to this buyer.

I'm hoping he is equally generous in allowing me to sell my security deposit for the OM, which he has allowed customers to do in the past.

[Fsgeek]

Im glad someone is enjoying the Kraut...

[mikealpine]

Seems like Karma is working in your favor. Wishing the buyer years of luck and enjoyment with the guitar!! Ideally Ray would like to end his relationship with you on as much of an upward note as possible and will allow you to sell your build slot. Hope that works out for you as well!!

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by justonwo

The guitar has been sold to a very friendly buyer who was excited about the sound from the clips (and all of the cool design features and aesthetics in the guitar. Ray has generously offered to extend the warranty to this buyer.

Congrats for that!

Originally Posted by justonwo

I'm hoping he is equally generous in allowing me to sell my security deposit for the OM, which he has allowed customers to do in the past.

That would likely be easiest if you could find someone that would enjoy the details of what you and Ray have already worked out on that build and continue where it stopped. From what I've read, Ray has made several trips and spent considerable time before you decided to discontinue the process.

I wish best o' luck to all involved.

[racman]

From Ray's site ( as on so many other builders ordering conditions):

"ORDERING Ordering a guitar direct first requires a $1,500 non-refundable deposit that will place you on my waiting list."

I think Ray helped one forum member and now everyone expects him to continue doing so. A little unfair I think, but then I don't know all the facts I suppose...

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

<<snip>>

From what I've read, Ray has made several trips and spent considerable time before you decided to discontinue the process.

Originally Posted by racman

From Ray's site ( as on so many other builders ordering conditions):

"ORDERING Ordering a guitar direct first requires a $1,500 non-refundable deposit that will place you on my waiting list."

<<snip>>

The reality of the situation (including things said, yet better left unsaid) seems to be not-fully-understood by the OP.

Everyone is glad the guitar found a home, I'm sure.