Eastman Guitar Pricing...

[jpricewood]

I love Eastman—I’ve owned 7, including most of their premium models—but I don’t think the price increases will work out in their favor. They are getting too close to Martin, Gibson, and Taylor pricing. Eastmans sound great, and they are well made, but I don’t think they are quite the same quality as the big American brands. They still seem to struggle with fret and neck issues. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I don’t think too many people have spent more on Eastmans than me, except for Pura Vida.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

That’s your opinion and it may or may not be the case.
That wasn’t my point anyway.
Let me put it into a similar context.
“Why would I pay $3000 for a guitar made in the Czech Republic when I could buy a really nice Martin for less right here?” Furch seems a bit pricey for a guitar made outside the U.S.
Do you see how that sounds?

I see how it sounds and totally get your point. The fact remains, the label/moniker "Made in China" will make many walk away. Questions like "Hows it different than an Epiphone or Cort" will inevitably pop up. You and I both know this from experience. You have also seen how difficult it can be to educate people on the difference. Whether we agree with the reasoning or not - it does and will continue to make a difference in perceived value and therefore, actual value to many.

I also know from experience - can an Eastman be as good as a Martin? Yes? Can an Ibanez be as good as an Eastman? Yes, IME. For me, herein lies the quandary.

[neomastino]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

If Eastman’s were made in the Czech Republic would this be a question?

Nope, I'd buy it in a heartbeat if Czech made, but since it is not, I will avoid completely because it's Chinese made.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Hi Steve,

I appreciate your thoughts and input but I would also like to offer a counterpoint. I have owned 4 Eastmans. 2 sounded and played very good, two were dogs. 3 of the 4 had irregular and improperly spec'ed string widths at the nut. The one that didn't had a severely cracked and crazed finish (I bought it new this way, as it was a steal and aesthetics don't concern me).

The last one I sold was my E6OM. Sounded very good, but I actually preferred the string spacing to my B-stock Ibanez 240 and it sounds 95% as good. I had both for several years, so not a snap decision, a judgement call and as much about playability as tone. I had an AC422 that was superb, but had a slightly twisted neck, minor intonation issues and too big for me - so I sold it.

I also had an AC122 (the finish on the neck wasn't cured properly and I had to remove it, and stain it just to get rid of it). The tone was awful and the intonation was way off. I bought this one used and online, so, Caveat Emptor, I guess.

I also owned an OM2 (can't remember the whole designation), but it was a lower priced all solid Sapele OM. Advertised as a 1.75" nut - it was 11/16ths. This one was my own fault, bought it and thought I would get accustomed to it. never did. It's tone was dull and muted and far inferior to my Ibanez AC240.

So, you see, I have been very open to the Eastman brand and have often defended them here. I have also found them wanting more often than not.

I have heard that they have stepped up their game, and that may well be true. I would not hesitate to buy a good one now if I could play it first.. I would be pretty hesitant to buy online and only from a dealer with a generous return policy.

If you buy one, I strongly recommend play before pay.

Yes, I find nothing to disagree with here. My understanding is the game with Eastman has changed in the last few years regarding consistency of fit and finish etc. Earlier reports of mis measured nuts etc, some very basic issues. I believe those are largely in the past, we shall see. Still, I think the apples to oranges price point issue remains accurate - Eastman and Martin/Gibson with same specs are significantly far apart on pricing.

And as for your Ibanez, I have played a couple of Ibanez acoustics that really wowed me - I wondered how they did it at the price point. Then I remember the 2 or 3 Ibanez Semi Hollows I've owned over the years - magnificent instruments that punch well above their weight.

[PeterMN]

Considering you can still find all-solid Eastmans for under $500 new I'd say their pricing is more than reasonable.

[Spineycat]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

That’s your opinion and it may or may not be the case.
That wasn’t my point anyway.
Let me put it into a similar context.
“Why would I pay $3000 for a guitar made in the Czech Republic when I could buy a really nice Martin for less right here?” Furch seems a bit pricey for a guitar made outside the U.S.
Do you see how that sounds?

I see how that sounds. It sounds like you expect everything made outside the US to be cheaper regardless of quality.

[CoachD]

I'm seeing the E-6 (D-18/OM-18) models for about $900 MAP now FWIW.

I did notice to price increase over the last year or so due to the new tariffs in the US as others have already noted. Before the price increase E-1/E-2 models for under $500 MAP were screaming hot deals.

I still think there is a lot of value in the Eastman line, and I've played many great/tempting ones at a few stores (they are surprisingly hard to find new and nearly impossible to find used). I do think the used ones are holding value well for an import guitar. There was a local E10SS for $700 on CL, but it was there for a long time (before CV19). I don't know if it ever actually sold.

I've seen comparisons of high end Eastmans ($1400) to high end Martins ($3400) which is fair, but I think the bigger question is:

Is a new $1400 higher end Eastman D-18 style guitar a better guitar/value than a standard used Martin D-18 (around $1600-$1800)?

To the OP's point, the model that does make me scratch my head is the AC-630 for $2140 MAP. Granted it is a steal compared to the $5K+ Gibson SJ-200 equivalent, but I've seen the Gibson marked down to under $3K on closeout.

I assume there's a market for a $2K Eastman, but it's not me. IMO if a E-8D is around $1K, then the SJ-200 style should be possible for around $1200-$1400 MAP. (the Gibson version is way overpriced too IMO)

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

Yeah, they have one, the DT30GACE, with an MSRP of $3,195. That just seems nuts to me, even with the retail discount. There's no indication that it's not made in China...

Why would it *not* be made in China? Their guitar production is located outside of Beijing.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Spineycat

I see how that sounds. It sounds like you expect everything made outside the US to be cheaper regardless of quality.

That was exactly my point.
For those who assign labels, let me remind you that in many parts of the world people were doing extremely intricate and complicated craftwork long before we ever did. In fact, most of our knowledge and skills initially came from the rest of the world including the Far East.
Eastman has been placed in high regard for the violins they build. The original violin manufacturing company now called Eastman dates back nearly 500 years in China.
Seems they know something about stringed instruments.

https://www.eastmanstrings.com/violin

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by CoachD

I'm seeing the E-6 (D-18/OM-18) models for about $900 MAP now FWIW...

Is a new $1400 higher end Eastman D-18 style guitar a better guitar/value than a standard used Martin D-18 (around $1600-$1800)?

To the OP's point, the model that does make me scratch my head is the AC-630 for $2140 MAP. Granted it is a steal compared to the $5K+ Gibson SJ-200 equivalent, but I've seen the Gibson marked down to under $3K on closeout.

FYI, the Eastman D-18 style guitar is the $900 E6D you mention, not the $1400 (they don't really have one at that price point). Eastman charges about $300 to upgrade to Adi, where Martin charges $600, Collings $1000, etc. So, a $1200, $1400, or even $2000 Eastman isn't exactly apples to apples to a D-18. It would be closer to a custom shop with an Adi top upgrade, plus D-42 style inlays, which would cost you north of $5k.

As for the AC630-BD, they list for $2140, but can sell for less, as noted elsewhere. I own one, and it compares extremely well to a Gibson Maple jumbo.

[Spineycat]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

That was exactly my point.
For those who assign labels, let me remind you that in many parts of the world people were doing extremely intricate and complicated craftwork long before we ever did. In fact, most of our knowledge and skills initially came from the rest of the world including the Far East.
Eastman has been placed in high regard for the violins they build. The original violin manufacturing company now called Eastman dates back nearly 500 years in China.
Seems they know something about stringed instruments.

https://www.eastmanstrings.com/violin

If you understand that they are very talented and do great work , why do you think it should be cheaper than US made products ?

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

I am not bothered by your POV and not feeling reactive, I just think you've come to some inaccurate conclusions.

I'll state up front: I'm a big fan of Martin - the company, the tone, the instruments. I am not a big fan of Gibson. I LOVE the way Gibsons look and want to get into their tone, but can't seem to. I believe all else being equal, spending on a Bourgeois/Collings/Santa Cruz etc is often worth it. I've owned those too, over the years. I regularly own high end instruments, my Mcilroy being a prime example.

Ok, so.

The Thermo Cured Eastman coming my way, new with lifetime warranty is about 1/3 the price of the equivalent Martin. It is the first new instrument I've ever bought in my life. I'm quite giddy about it. Eastman: $1300 or so. Equivalent Martin: $3400 or so. This ratio roughly works as you go down the line. The non TC sitka version, the Eastman E6OM is Eastman's answer to the Martin 00018 - a legendary guitar. Eastman: $850 before a phone call. Martin: $2400 before a phone call.

I say this because of your case that the PAC company is getting too close to the US equivalent. I simply don't think that is the case at all. I think they are still comfortably under half of what you'd pay for a US equivalent and oftentimes 1/3.

As for resale value, I searched HARD for a pre owned TC Eastman, including looking at a beauty owned by a fellow AGFer. The preowned price he was asking was very fair, based on what I was finding on reverb. I think he will comfortably get his asking price. They are selling something like 10% less than a new one. The demand for them appears such that as of now at least, Eastman's resale/lack of depreciation in the used market is the strongest I've seen. This seems to track on their more common instruments like the E6 and E8 series. They just seem to hold their value freakishly high in the used market. That is what tipped me to a new one. Sure, it may not stay this way, but it was wild to price a brand new one vs what I could get preowned and realize the savings were minimal. The pre owned was around $1200. A preowned Martin equivalent would be $2400+

It is not a comment against Martin, although I'll confess that 3 out of the last 4 Martins I bought pre owned had QC issues that left me chagrined - glue around the binding issues, separated binding issues, a separated seam (3 different guitars, 3 different issues.)

Of course, it could be the previous owners in each case neglected their instruments, it may have nothing to do with Martin, but when I got the guitar with the glue/binding issue I did some googling and sure enough, many Martins of that era had that exact issue.

Again, this coming from a Martin fan. I don't have a dog in the 'where it was built' and heritage argument. I don't believe an Eastman sounds like a Martin, nor should it. But the Eastmans I have played so far sound so, so good and their fit and finish is impeccable. I expect great things out of the TC I'm about to get and can't believe the good value. I expect I'll never sell it. If, by some highly unlikely chance, I want to sell the Eastman in the next couple of years, its likely I'll get 90% back from what I paid new. Unheard of.

I agree with everything in this reply. Eastman used guitars are turning fast, and they're getting 90% of new prices (arguably more with dealer discounts). My local CL just added an E8OM for $1000, which I could get new for about the same price with a phone call. I have no doubt that it will sell quickly.

Likewise, I've been in the market for a used E10OM-TC, but used sells for within $200 of new (and that price difference gets consumed with sales tax and shipping). I found two good deals recently (parlor, OM), and both sold within 24 hours (while I quibbled over questions, someone paid asking price and got the deal).

Eastman's "low resale values" is a myth, especially if compared in $ variances (not % variances). I'm even money or in the black on my Eastman purchases.

[Spineycat]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

I agree with everything in this reply. Eastman used guitars are turning fast, and they're getting 90% of new prices (arguably more with dealer discounts). My local CL just added an E8OM for $1000, which I could get new for about the same price with a phone call. I have no doubt that it will sell quickly.

Likewise, I've been in the market for a used E10OM-TC, but used sells for within $200 of new (and that price difference gets consumed with sales tax and shipping). I found two good deals recently (parlor, OM), and both sold within 24 hours (while I quibbled over questions, someone paid asking price and got the deal).

Eastman's "low resale values" is a myth, especially if compared in $ variances (not % variances). I'm even money or in the black on my Eastman purchases.

Not the case in the UK. They don’t hold their value here well at all.

[JERZEY]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

I agree with everything in this reply. Eastman used guitars are turning fast, and they're getting 90% of new prices (arguably more with dealer discounts). My local CL just added an E8OM for $1000, which I could get new for about the same price with a phone call. I have no doubt that it will sell quickly.

Likewise, I've been in the market for a used E10OM-TC, but used sells for within $200 of new (and that price difference gets consumed with sales tax and shipping). I found two good deals recently (parlor, OM), and both sold within 24 hours (while I quibbled over questions, someone paid asking price and got the deal).

Eastman's "low resale values" is a myth, especially if compared in $ variances (not % variances). I'm even money or in the black on my Eastman purchases.

Yea no problem selling Eastmans what so ever used in the NJ/NY area. Sure I dont expect to get that much back on the 300$ models but anything over that is a home run.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

I agree with everything in this reply. Eastman used guitars are turning fast, and they're getting 90% of new prices (arguably more with dealer discounts). My local CL just added an E8OM for $1000, which I could get new for about the same price with a phone call. I have no doubt that it will sell quickly.

Likewise, I've been in the market for a used E10OM-TC, but used sells for within $200 of new (and that price difference gets consumed with sales tax and shipping). I found two good deals recently (parlor, OM), and both sold within 24 hours (while I quibbled over questions, someone paid asking price and got the deal).

Eastman's "low resale values" is a myth, especially if compared in $ variances (not % variances). I'm even money or in the black on my Eastman purchases.

Not arguing with the veracity of your post, but perhaps this is more of a local or online phenomena. They go for about 50-60% here. For 90% of new prices buyers can have them, I wouldn't buy one at that rate. To each his own.