Live performance rig with 4 inputs??? HELP!

[tadol]

Schertler Jam 400?

[hotroad]

I bought the Jam 400 and after using it for a few months I decided that I didn't like it. It has a horn instead of a tweeter for highs. I prefer the tweeter since it capture those crisp trebles that the horn just cant do. Call me picky. I am. But the Shertler Jam 400 is one amazing great amp for most people and I highly recommend it.

[hotroad]

Great help here on this issue. Thanks to all who have contributed. I am talking with the Lucas Nano sales people at Kraft music today to get some answers and possibly go that direction. I love the configuration of the two pole mounted small speakers that give dispersion coupled with a great subwoofer for lows. It gets really pricey to get the mixer and it will probably be replaced with a new version in the next year anyway. I might have to go with the mixer I have, the Allen & Heath Zed10fx. But I will say that the mixer that Lucas provides is totally amazing in so many ways. Much more user friendly and on target with my needs than the Mackie or Behringer Digital mixers out now.

[Riles]

The videos for Carvin AG300 say that you can plug both 1/4 inch and mic into same channel turning 3 inputs into 5. I don't own but they get good reviews on here.
I do own Schertler jam 400 but you mentioned it didn't work for you. I like it but don't like the weight. May be getting the JBL eon pro when it comes out for pure portability even though it only has a treble and bass. Good luck

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by hotroad

Great help here on this issue. Thanks to all who have contributed. I am talking with the Lucas Nano sales people at Kraft music today to get some answers and possibly go that direction. I love the configuration of the two pole mounted small speakers that give dispersion coupled with a great subwoofer for lows. It gets really pricey to get the mixer and it will probably be replaced with a new version in the next year anyway. I might have to go with the mixer I have, the Allen & Heath Zed10fx. But I will say that the mixer that Lucas provides is totally amazing in so many ways. Much more user friendly and on target with my needs than the Mackie or Behringer Digital mixers out now.

Good! The Nano 602 is intended for use with an outboard mixer, which is probably how I would have to go now. Eliminating the digital mixer built into the 608i model is not an issue since you have the A&H Zed10FX. Especially, if you are already satisfied with the analog mixer.

I don't like using the iPad during performances, but I really got spoiled by the parametric EQ, compression, gate, and effects on the Behringer XR12. So, now I have the QSC TouchMix 8 arriving today. It is the same digital mixer capability with a physical interface and upgradable software.

On the other hand, if you are not satisfied with the analog mixer, then getting the 608i simplifies things for you, and eliminates one piece of gear to carry. Good luck!


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[hotroad]

JBL Eon Pro has to have an outboard mixer. Nano 600 does too. Spring for the 602i and you get the digital mixer extraordinaire for a lot more money of course. And it may be out of date in a year. Maybe an outboard mixer is not such a bad idea for great sound. That HK Nano mixer is one superb piece of gear....if it works. I talked with them today and no one there knows whats going on. The produce is not even available and they don't know when it will be per my conversation today with two managers there. Ouch! Makes me question.

So, maybe off to the Mackie Reach with the four combo inputs. But then today in digging for the inside scoop I heard that the tone is rough. I am a tone freak!

So I am wondering about a Daedalus 3 way Speaker (top of the line) plus a 1000watt amp plus a cabinet to carry it in.....sounds heavy and cumbersome.

So as OP of this thread, my question is still about the lines crossing where lightweight crosses with superb tone crosses with functionality. Is there a product that magically appears at the juncture of those three lines? Thats it!!


Thanks for the great ideas here so far. I am getting closer. Its a huge decision since I play full time professionally for various size gigs throughout the year. This hunt is for the smallest lightest system for small gigs......but it has to be high end tone wise.

[martingitdave]

Avoid the Mackie Reach. It's a toy. You will be unhappy. Every AGF member I know who bought one, returned it. Just like the Mackie products from the same range, I own(ed), the preamps are too weak. You end up with no volume. Good luck with your decision.

JBL Eon One Pro $1500 all-in-one.
JBL Eon One $900 needs a mixer.
HK Lucas Nano 602 $1,000 needs a mixer.
HK Lucas Nano 608i $1500 all-in-one.

I have to admit that if you are OK carrying an extra mixer bag, I would opt for that and one of the cheaper systems. I have the same concern about software and feature updates for the Nano 608i digital mixer. The Behringer and QSC digital products get regular updates.


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[hotroad]

I beat you to it. Before I read your post I had already decided that Mackie Reach is a toy indeed.
So thanks for the summary on the four units. There are others that I have found as well but some are not represented in the US. Funny that neither product you mentioned, the HK or the JBL are available.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by hotroad

I am a tone freak!

That's the most important fact that you have to precise.

Most mini-line array thing are a compromise between sound projection and weight. For example, the lows and low-midrange (typically <400Hz) comes from the ground (woofer) and the midrange and highs (typically >400Hz to around 15kHz) is put on a "stick" to reach further away.

1) It means that you have phase mismatch and destructive interferences depending on where you are. That's why on 2-way speakers the tweeter is close to the woofer. It's made so that the sound waves add coherently. Therefore also the twincones design to prevent phase alignement problem.
It means that, by design, those system don't sound perfect. And usually have a low midrange "hole" in their response. So those mini line array usually have a sound signature. They are crisp, clear and miss a beat of low-midrange punch. It's difficult to describe it but some "meat" is gone. For most user, this part of the sound can be "muddy" in uncontrolled environnement (where those speaker are designed to work). As far as the lows are concerned,

2) If you want sound quality and projection, then you should probably go to a more conventional system (QSC...)

3) If you want sheer audio quality: Then consider something heavy that projects less.

HK nanos are much more common in Europe. I've tested the 600 in a shop downtown. It sounded good but the condition was not right (small room, could not push it). I've listenned to it in a restaurant where two guys were playing acoustic. I was impressed (Maybe not Bose L1mII impressed but still impressed). The sound was articulate and balanced. Note that the Nano is known to be bass heavy and I like bass.

I'll send you a PM with the measurements of these made by professionals.

Note: I think I remember seeing a 608i in a shop in Germany but did not try. But I can remember telling myself, that I could come backthe day after with my ipad to give a try.

Cuki

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by hotroad

I beat you to it. Before I read your post I had already decided that Mackie Reach is a toy indeed.

So thanks for the summary on the four units. There are others that I have found as well but some are not represented in the US. Funny that neither product you mentioned, the HK or the JBL are available.

Ha! Glad you identified the Mackie issue. The new JBL might arrive very soon. The Nano 608i is available from BH Photo as a 1 week special order. So, they must be in production.

If you consider the mixer route, some people are reporting success with the Turbosound iP500,1000,2000. Though, they are relatively heavy. The 500 or 1000 might work for you.

Regarding Cuki's comment. The HK Nano and the Bose systems tend to cross over around 200 Hz. This is probably why they sound a little more even. The JBL I think crosses at 400 Hz. That said, I don't hear much of a hole, even though it's there. Those are the frequencies I dial out of the guitar for quack reduction.


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[Cuki79]

Since my experiecne with the AH4x4

I would seriously reconsider the Fishman SA330+Expand

1) It's scalable: you don't have ton install the expansion mixer if you don't need it.

2) There is a real tweeter and 4" speakers are enough if you don't need deep bass.

3) The optional deluxe bag seems well designed.





4) At least I would not wonder about the preamps being cheap (as opposite to JBL eon, mackie reach...). Since we all know Fishman loudbox preamps are fine.

5) Should be easy to find in the US.

[Cuki79]

Ah Ah

I've just checked the sub and it would be great for me (crossover tunable between 80 to 125Hz)

* AH4x4 (outdoor -small room - solo act)
* AH4x4 +Fishman SA SUB (bigger room- additional bass - percussive sound)
* Fishman SA330 (big room - solo act)
* Fishman SA 330 +SA SUB (band)
Maximum flexibility

Then I dicovered that AS SUB is
549$ in the US
925€ (1005$) in Europe

lol, man the import company makes big money on this one.
Fishman SA330x is
999$ with deluxe gigbag in the US
1299€ (1412$) in Europe.

No wonder, I've never seen one outside a shop...

Cuki

[hotroad]

I have the SA220 with the nice gig bag and it is nice. What is the difference between the SA220 and the SA330? Besides price. Maybe I should just add a sub to my SA220 if its possible. Never thought of it before now.

[hotroad]

In looking just now at the SA330, the panel with the controls are identical. Maybe the speakers are too. What is the diff?

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by hotroad

In looking just now at the SA330, the panel with the controls are identical. Maybe the speakers are too. What is the diff?

I would say expandability:
* Expand mixer (option)
* Subwoofer (option with crossover within the SA330X)
* Bag with rollers (option as opposite to SA220)

The amp section slightly more powerfull but since the speaker seem to be the same, I don't think you'd feel any difference if speaker breakup is the limit. They porbably change the amp due to electronic component availability.

Cuki