THE BOSE/FISHMAN A/B IS ON! 10/8 N. Dallas

[MikeTX]

Hey Cakes,

The Bose was a Model II, with T-1 and just one sub.

Man - I am a HUGE Bose fan and user, big believer in their presets, zEQ, all of it. I am NOT as adept with the T1 as I wish I was - that's why I didn't even try to tune on the fly last night. I'm a set-it-and-forget-it guy. Plus, by the time I had access, it was time to play.

But, I CAN promise you that, at least for me, tuning the SoloAmp CAN be done in minutes, almost immediately. It's very simple and intuitive, again, focused solely on acoustic guitar, without the specific model preset concept - doesn't seem to really need it.

The Bose Forum is going to string me up!

Regarding the tandem setup - it sounds big, and good. It is NOT necessary to effectively fill a room though, even a large one. In my experience, many if not most places, they would tell you to turn it down if you fired up two of them. ONE works very well. TWO you could use in a huge room or a very large outside area, OR with another player. If you only need one Bose in any given place, you'd only need one SoloAmp.

Hope this helps! Mike

[rmyAddison]

John,

See my responses in BLUE

Originally Posted by Cakes

Thanks for the write-up, Rich! Very informative. You know I'm a Bose fan, but I haven't heard the solo amp and I take your word that it was preferable, given the test settings.

A couple questions if you don't mind:

1) Did you do a "walk-around-the-room" **while one L1 and one Fishman was playing**, either with guitar/vox or with canned music? I ask because it sounds like from your description (correct me if I'm wrong) that two solo amps were required to really fill the entire space evenly, at least to your preferred level of satisfaction. Don't want to put words in your mouth, though. Lemme know.

Yes, we ALL wandered around, I did not see a noticeable difference between the "fill" with either system, call it a tie. The point about dual SoloAmps was that was amazing, a true wall of sound everywhere, 2 L1's might well do the same, but look at the money difference. I am not saying the SoloAmp needed two systems to fill the room, nor would the Bose, just that there is an amazing sound stage with two towers.

2) Can you confirm which L1 model you used? If it was a "classic" or Model I, the power stand into which the array fits/sits would be a "rounded home plate-looking thing" whereas the Model II has a narrow rectangular base with four arms extending out at each corner. This Model II system, with one sub, and no T1 (Bose mini-mixer) is $2,500. However, the Model I or Classic is $2000 and includes a sub. And it would perform in much the same way as the Model II (though with slightly less side-to-side dispersion) and a slight on-center "sweet spot".

It was a new Model II w/bass module and tone match engine

With respect to the flat settings that were used, I can appreciate the intention here to do a fair comparison and I think that's one fair way to do an A/B comparison. On the other hand, with respect to canned music or vocal with guitar or drums or bass or different microphonse as the source, the value of the Bose is the ability to instantly have access to some great eq curves tailored to different instruments, mics, or even low vs loud canned music---at the touch of a single button. While some people prefer the L1 played flat, much of the technology (and the additional price), results from this additional capability and it's something that no one else offers in this type of rig.

Also, I have no doubt that the Fishman eq could have been greatly improved with some tweaking, whether with onboard controls or a mixer. And I have no doubt that the person with the right skills and ears could make the Fishman sound every bit as good, if not better than the Bose. But could they do it in 5 seconds? Could a relative newbie to sound do it in 20 minutes? Regardless of experience or skill level, the ToneMatch presets, whether on the Model I/Classic or the Model II with T1 make it possible for anyone to achieve good quality sound, virtually instantly.

Sorry for the preachy Bose speak. More than anything, I want people to be able to make informed decisions. And like I said, I know that given your years of experience and well-tuned ears, you are more than qualified to weigh in and I respect your opinion.

I'm sure, no I KNOW both systems could have been EQ'd to better performance, no arguement. We had time constraints and wanted the canned music from a controlled source to be flat. The Bose presets may well be an advantage to getting the best sound possible over the manual and minimal controls on the SoloAmp. We did our best with the time we had....

The bottom line to me was the Fishman held it's own or was preferable by all accounts and when you factor in the price it deserves strong consideration, let folks take it from there and choose what fits their needs and budget.





John

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Regarding the tandem setup - it sounds big, and good. It is NOT necessary to effectively fill a room though, even a large one. In my experience, many if not most places, they would tell you to turn it down if you fired up two of them. ONE works very well. TWO you could use in a huge room or a very large outside area, OR with another player. If you only need one Bose in any given place, you'd only need one SoloAmp.

Mike,
Excellent posts and the same goes to Rich too. I'll add my thanks to Rich for setting all of this up and to all of you for all the great info.

With regard to two systems, I'm wondering if that could solve my "can't stand in front of it problem." Is the fill w/two such that one could run two systems at lower volumes than you would need to get the same fill with one at a higher volume? I'm also wondering if I tried two and put a "loud" one further away from me and used a "soft" one to help fill the room and put that one more as a monitor. Hmmmm....

Thanks again for all the info.
Matt

[riggie]

It's very difficult to tell from the video clips, but in both scenarios, it seems to me that the Fishman is lacking in bottom end?

[rmyAddison]

On the Videos,

Endpin was nice enought to show up (unexpected) and take some videos. It was not planned and he had to work around all the comotion we made in the room switching setups, performers, etc.

Just as we could have EQ'd both systems to perfection with more time, if we had planned the videos we could have provided Endpin with perhaps a direct feed, better lighting, a fixed recording position, etc. The videos were very "on the fly" and I want to publically thank Endpin for his time, much appreciated sir!

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by riggie

It's very difficult to tell from the video clips, but in both scenarios, it seems to me that the Fishman is lacking in bottom end?

In the room neither system with either bass modlue or sub was lacking for bottom end.

Does the SoloAmp need a sub for it's intended purpose, solo/duo acoustic performance, NO.

Does it need a sub for comparable full range playback like the rock symphony we demo'd, YES. But, you are only going to need a sub with the SoloAmp if you play back full spectrum canned music, no need with acoustic guitar.

Fishman does not recommend a sub and you do not need one for acoustic guitar/vocals.

[rmyAddison]

Matt,

I'm a kind of an overboard guy with my toys (ask my wife). I will buy two SoloAmps, not because it is necessary, but because it is amazing and still very affordable versus a single L1. To your point, absolutley you would be running two at a lower volume than one for the same room fill.

Our setup was in front of a literal wall of speakers, the bottom filled with a row of subwoofers, then on top a row of large mains and on top of them a row of smaller mains. These two skinny SoloAmp towers gave the impression that that entire wall of speakers were fired up, from my home theater experience it would definitely be called a HUGE soundstage, I like it!

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

Mike,
Excellent posts and the same goes to Rich too. I'll add my thanks to Rich for setting all of this up and to all of you for all the great info.

With regard to two systems, I'm wondering if that could solve my "can't stand in front of it problem." Is the fill w/two such that one could run two systems at lower volumes than you would need to get the same fill with one at a higher volume? I'm also wondering if I tried two and put a "loud" one further away from me and used a "soft" one to help fill the room and put that one more as a monitor. Hmmmm....

Thanks again for all the info.
Matt

[MikeTX]

Grin! Yeah Matt, now that you sent one back, go buy TWO!

Seriously, you may be right. When we ran two, I had to shift several times to get myself in the exact middle sweet spot as I played. With the settings used, it was louder, that's what everybody wanted to hear, but I could tell you COULD set the volume levels lower on each one, and the sum of the two would be a very pleasing sound. I just don't want to work that hard myself (carrying around two). But you're young - you could easily carry one in each hand! Actually even old fat me could too, I just don't want to!

You know, I very purposefully got as close as I could to the Solo as the rock symphony played, to try to recreate your ears-hurting scene, and I couldn't get there. And my first night with it I was literally a foot away. Diff strokes I guess. Sorry it hurt ya man - too bad!

Mike

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by MikeTX

Grin! Yeah Matt, now that you sent one back, go buy TWO!

Can you imagine my salesman at Sweetwater if I called and ordered two more!

My question was just hypothetical.

Matt

[Mark Byrom]

First and foremost, thanks for setting this whole thing up and for the detailed reports. Posts like these are the reason I visit this forum way too often. You just can't get this kind of info anywhere esle and it is greatly appreciated.

I'm curious to know if you guys were able to compare these systems using a variety of pickups; USTs, Pure Western, mags, Aura, ES, etc., or even straight through an outside mic?

[rmyAddison]

Mark,

Thanks for the kind words, it was fun setting this up and meeting some forum folks.

We had from 7-8:30 allowing some teardown time before the store closed. There are lots of things we would have done with more time, including some very good suggestions from folks on the forum who weren't there. I tried to budget the time as best we could and believe me we rushed the entire time to complete what we did.

We could have easily spent an entire day or even a weekend getting down and dirty, the time just wasn't there.....................take care.

[jstancil]

Thanks a bunch Rich, I really wish I could have been there. I love 1 soloamp so I'm thinking I will love 2 just as much! I am going to get another one soon and add a sub for my DJing gigs.

[MikeTX]

Hi Mark,

While not the main focus at all, there WERE a few different pickups that were used.

The first one was a Martin with an Aura.

Another Martin had some "plain", "normal" Fishman undersaddle.

Rich's new 175 Martin was mic'd.

There was a Taylor sitting there, but since it had ES which I detest, I sure didn't pick it up. I have a Taylor myself, but with a B-Band, and the other players were Martin fans exclusively.

To me, the "normal" Martin #2 sounded best. But, we did not have or make the time to fine-tune-EQ anything. But, like the Bose, the Fishman will project very well whatever source is fed into it. Also, if you have experience with your fave pickups through the other Fishman amps, Loudbox etc, there seems to be similarities to me - the SoloAmp sure seems in the same sonic family as the Loudbox.

Good Q - hope this helps - Mike

[jlott00]

i went ahead and took the plunge and ordered a soloamp, so i cant wait

[john57classic]

Man am I pissed I got stuck an extra day in Denver not just because I wanted to hear this first hand but because I missed a chance to meet some fellow forum members as well.