Why bother?

[archerscreek]

Haha. I ask myself the same question sometimes. Why bother?

They give me 8 new songs on a Wednesday to learn by Saturday with odd time signatures like 5/4 and 3/2 and some with different time signatures for different parts of the song. These are not simple 1, 4, 5 songs played in 4/4. Many have uncommon chord shapes with various notes added or played in the bass, and multiple quick chord changes as in four different chords in one or two words. The piano player plays lead and rhythm and wants me to find a way to not only learn the new stuff fast but fit in with her and sound good doing it.

So I study the music and work to get it done. We sound good unplugged in our single "day of" practice right before mass. Then a drummer decides to show up but doesn't play in the practice. And the singer without telling anyone boosted her mic level to make sure she hears hersef. And the week prior someone plugged into the PA line assigned to me and lowered the level to better suit his or her pickup and lack of other musicians playing with them and didn't change it back. So I'm swimming against the tide to begin with.

Then when mass starts, the piano player, instead of playing as before, bangs the heck out of the keys to hear herself over the congregation, the singer, and the drummer. She changes the tempo of the songs and does so multiple times in each song, plays the 5/4 as a 4/4, elongates the timing of her pauses, which aren't supposed to be there anyway. The drummer plays so loud you think they want to wake up Satan. The singer has her mic dialed so high all angels in Heaven have to listen to her. And people then wonder why they can't hear the guitar player.

[BoneDigger]

Perhaps this lady should learn the 5 string banjo. Every congregation should have a banjo player! Then she would for sure be heard, mic'd or not!

[golfreggie]

Originally Posted by Tony Burns

Im sure that she adds to the sound quality
thou you my not clearly hear her , without her
it wouldnt have the same feel , or sound.
Everyone is important in a band of players.

Your point makes me think of "The Wrecking Crew". For example, when I listen to Be My Baby by the Ronettes the "sound" is awesome, but the only instrument that gets highlighted is Hal Blaine and his drum work. What they make is "the Sound"

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

It isn't necessarily "definitely the sound guy." For a few years we had a woman playing rhythm guitar in the church group I lead who wanted to play with us but played so softly she couldn't be heard. Since she had built-in electronics on her guitar we started plugging her in, but she still couldn't be heard very well. We tried turning her channel up and after that she played even more softly.

It took us some time to figure out that while she ostensibly wanted to contribute to the music, what she really wanted was to be up there with us but to fade into the wallpaper sonically.

And, of course, she never told us that. We had to figure it out.

So the woman you saw playing might have the same desire. Heck, maybe it's even the same woman!

Some folks are like that. My attitude is like the OP's: why bother? What would you gain from non-participatory participation like that? But it has me stumped: all I've been able to figure out is that sometimes church musicians act in mysterious ways...


Wade Hampton Miller

I've played with people like this. I have also played with people who should have been turned down and insisted on turning themselves up

[Bob Womack]

A couple of years back I mixed a national group with seven members for a national broadcast. They prerecorded their performance so I got the chance to really comb the tracks camel's fur, if you will, to make them sound great. They were incredibly professional. The lead guitarist played an old '70s Les Paul Custom that sounded great and had RED STRINGS, no joke. (DR Neon Reds). I got a fantastic mix that I was really proud of. In fact, I keep a copy of the video on my work station and I'm watching it right now.

There was just one anomaly: When you start a mix with twenty-some-odd channels, you typically pop up all the faders to zero and give a listen at the start. I did. There was something REALLY wrong with the vocal section. I closed everything except the drums and started getting a sound. I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it.

Right then the band's sound guy dropped in. After introductions and pleasantries he said, "You know that singer in the back over there (pointing at a guy on the screen)? Mic 4? Don't even bring up his mic. Thanks. See ya." He left to jump on the tour bus. Well I did open the mic. It was AWFUL. The guy couldn't carry a tune in a pail with a locking lid. We are talking absolutely hideous. Nails on blackboard stuff. I closed the fader for my own protection and went to work.

A bit later the show producer came in to "confer" with me.
"Did you hear to keep that fader closed?"
"Uh, yeah. What's the deal?"
"He can't sing."
"Um, I figured that one out. How on earth did he get a job with the band?"
"He owns and manages the band and has from the start. He also runs a huge music festival."

The band sounds truly great with that mic closed. They have several hit records and tour regularly. Apparently that guy likes to be in a band. He sure knows how to manage one.

Bob

[51 Relic]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Could be location. Could be the sound person.



Often at churches, the people in various positions are volunteers, and may not have real experience or credentials, and may not care about perfecting their craft. This goes for the sound people and band members alike.



So, it could be the sound person. It could also be that the band member in question is not a strong player, and maybe the sound person is doing everyone a favor. Volunteers, man. You get what you get.

I bet to differ in our worship band I’ve got 54 years of playing guitar and thirty years of gigging in pro bands . The keyboard player is a quality music teacher . Yes we are volunteers but it sounds great and we play as a team

[steelvibe]

Ow

Originally Posted by Tico

+1

Egos are like public flatulence ... revolting but in proper formal situations, best ignored.

Yes, but it is said that those who choose to flatulate in church shall sit in their own pew.

[musicman1951]

There are lots of possibilities. I have been to several churches with music groups and no separate sound man/woman. The mixer is up by the group and one of the musicians sets the levels. If you're very luck that person moves all around the church during rehearsals and has some idea of ensemble sound - and sometimes you're just not that lucky.

It's not easy to balance grand pianos and acoustic guitars. Bass guitars tend to develop full volume out in the room.

I can't see how it would hurt to try sitting in a different location and then discretely offer in a private moment that you enjoy her playing and thank her for being there - but it seems she could be a little louder. If she doesn't know it could easily be valuable information, and if she's too shy to play louder she will probably appreciate your good wishes and change her volume not at all.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Shortfinger

I watch her play her chords and strum, but try as I might, I hear no guitar.

So why does she play at all?

However this ends up, the last thing I would do is ask her that question. As already noted, she may be quite content with the way things are.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Shortfinger

I like to sit near the band in church, to watch the singers and musicians, and to see and hear what's up with the guitar.

The vocalists are talented, three women and one man. There's an overpowering pianist, an electric bass who does his part, a drummer, and a guitarist on a thin little Mitchell. I watch her play her chords and strum, but try as I might, I hear no guitar.

So why does she play at all?

Because she likes to? Likes being up there, likes being in the band, likes to feel she's contributing as best she can?

Anyway, if it's an issue at all, it's the band's issue to deal with if and how they want.

[Shortfinger]

It all comes down to the music director and the pastor, in all the catholic churches we've been in. A parish just gets lucky, I guess.

A pastor can be interested in music and knowledgeable, and have a talented musical director, or it can go the other way. In the parish here with the not-there guitarist, there's apparently neither. We've moved a lot over the years, been members in a dozen different parishes all over the country, visited dozens more when traveling, and have only experienced quality church music in a few.

And only two of those few had ensemble instrumental music. When our daughter lived in Evanston, the parish musicians were mostly from Northwestern's school of music, and the music was excellent. Where we spend July through October, the pastor knows music, has a hand-picked pro as the music director, and players and vocalists retired from symphony work in NYC. Again, excellent music.

At our winter home in FL, the music guy at the nearby parish does a little keyboard noodling on a synth, singing to what sounds like third-rate karaoke tracks with 80s pop beats. We skip there drive another eight miles to attend in a parish with a band about like the one here in IL, piano, bass, drums, guitar, a trio of singers, and no mix guy. Can barely hear the guitarist, but so what, because the arrangements are tepid.

So except for two instances of singers accompanying themselves on guitar, and horn or strings accompanying piano or organ, we've experienced very little well-done liturgical music in a lifetime of churchgoing.

IMHO, if you are the music director for a church, and have an ensemble with electric bass, mic'd drums, and guitar through an amp, yourself on keys, you ought to bring top-notch producing and arranging skills to the table, so that hymns are tastefully and reverently performed. Sadly and too often, we've heard what sounded like garage bands.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by 51 Relic

I bet to differ in our worship band I’ve got 54 years of playing guitar and thirty years of gigging in pro bands . The keyboard player is a quality music teacher . Yes we are volunteers but it sounds great and we play as a team

No need to beg. I wasn’t referring to you or your church group. My cats all tour internationally and the band is incredible. That’s not always the case though. Some volunteers aren’t great. We all get paid at our church.

[jack crowder]

If you have a talent and you're led to use your talent in the church's worship team, you are fulfilling your call.

Some folks preach, some folks are custodians, some make sure the bills are being paid. Some greet people at the front door, shake their hand and tell them they're welcome and we're glad your here. They are contributing to the service by doing what they are called to do.

I read somewhere, make a joyful noise, don't see anything about it being perfect.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Shortfinger

We've moved a lot over the years, been members in a dozen different parishes all over the country, visited dozens more when traveling, and have only experienced quality church music in a few.

Interesting, Shortfinger. You are a connoisseur of local church music. This puts a different slant on your OP. I can see why you would ask why, but still best to be an observer.

[guitararmy]

At my church, we are a bit short on musicians, and so we have backing tracks for things like synthesizer and keyboards. One day I was noticing that the bass player was really jamming during a song, but I couldn't hear it. Turns out that the sound man turned him down and turned up the backing bass track!