Hide Glue Contruction

arlum · #1 05-01-2019, 05:25 PM

Could anyone possibly explain to me why "Hide Glue" construction adds so much to the price of an acoustic guitar? I've noted this on pretty much all brands that offer custom builds. I know it's harder to work with and has a quick set up time but really. Just one example. The Martin Custom Shop. Regular modern glue construction included in base price of the custom build. Hide Glue construction ..... add $1500.00. That's a lot of bread! Is it really that much harder to work with? I've heard similar models with and without hide glue construction and do hear a small difference. Maybe a "tighter" projection from the guitar? But .... $1500.00? It's glue. Elmers cost $4.00. Gorilla cost $12.00. High dollar at the hardware store might run $40.00 to $50.00. I have to assume professional wood glues for builders might run up to $200.00. Hide glue is animal protein glue. Are we running out of animals?. I've got an opossum living under my trailer any builder can have for free if they'll come and trap it. It's a confined space. It should be a pretty easy catch. Once you catch him and smash him you might get two or three guitars worth out of him.

The Bard Rocks · #2 05-01-2019, 05:43 PM

I have not heard of a hide glue upcharge anywhere near that before. I am impressed. True, hide glue is not something everyone knows how to do, but those that do say it's not that hard. Like a lot of guitar building, it's not the raw materials, it's the time and expertise that justifies the upcharge. Still.....

Some argue whether or not hide glue is any better - no one says it's worse, not as good.

D41Fan · #3 05-01-2019, 05:53 PM

Its true, Martin rips us off on HHG. $1500 is what they charge, but it may works out to be 40 % off that, but still.
Of course its not worth it but Martin knows they can charge what they want and somebody will pay for it. Does it make a difference in sound, I don't know but I will never pay to find out.

TJNies · #4 05-01-2019, 06:03 PM

Not sure it doesn't affect tone. My 00-30 has hide glue construction and while I don't have a non-HG counterpart to compare, this particular guitar is amazing.

There hasn't been one person who has played it that hasn't suggested it is leagues above anything else they have heard.

Napman41 · #5 05-01-2019, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D41Fan

Its true, Martin rips us off on HHG. $1500 is what they charge, but it may works out to be 40 % off that, but still.
Of course its not worth it but Martin knows they can charge what they want and somebody will pay for it. Does it make a difference in sound, I don't know but I will never pay to find out.

Right on bro’. I guess you’ll teach ‘em not to rip us off, though if you have no intention of ever paying for HHG I’d say you not their target audience. [emoji882]

JSDenvir · #6 05-01-2019, 07:34 PM

I use hide glue or fish glue on all sonically significant joints. It’s my understanding that protein-based glues dry more brittle than something like titebond. And thus do a better job of transmitting vibration.

It may or not be true. The testing is a little iffy. But I’m prepared to go with anecdotal evidence, because there’s no scientific evidence to the contrary at all.

Can you “hear” the glue? No. But can it be one little contributor to the overall tone of the guitar? Sure.

But upcharging for it? Why would you charge more for what could easily be considered best practices?

Just my thoughts. And worth every penny that you paid for them :-)

Steve

arlum · #7 05-02-2019, 04:57 AM

Thanks folks.

Mr. Jelly · #8 05-02-2019, 05:19 AM

To answer your question hide glue takes more time, more experience with hide glue and the glue (should) take a little more care in handling. So there is a little more waste.

redir · #9 05-02-2019, 07:28 AM

The answer to your question is one that is more of how economics works than guitar construction. Martin charges $1500 dollars extra simply because... they can. If people were not buying it at $1500 then they would either lower the price or not do it at all.

Having said that I use HHG on most joints on the guitar these days. I have built at least 40 guitars using just Titebond and maybe a bit of CA or even fish glue. I'd say it takes me approximately 15 more minutes to build a guitar using HHG then one out of Titebond. I don't charge a penny more for it.

In all fairness though in a factory setting it does change things up a bit. They probably have separate rooms that are heated, they have to train employees and so on.

Sax Player Guy · #10 05-02-2019, 07:35 AM

All Gibson acoustic guitars are made with hide glue. No upcharge, that's just how they do it. I didn't realize that Martins weren't routinely assembled with hide glue. Yes, $1,500 sounds a bit steep for a glue change. Yipes.

JonWint · #11 05-02-2019, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

In all fairness though in a factory setting it does change things up a bit. They probably have separate rooms that are heated, they have to train employees and so on.

HHG used on the main factory floor under heat lamps. "Authentic" top gluing at 2018 open house.

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charles Tauber · #12 05-02-2019, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sax Player Guy

All Gibson acoustic guitars are made with hide glue.

First I've ever heard that. Do you have a reference that states that?

hat · #13 05-02-2019, 09:09 AM

Part of it is labor. A big part is upcharge. Think of it like this: I work for an engine manufacturer. We sell the very same engine in various horsepowers. the higher HP rated ones cost more $$. Same with guitars, its the horsepower (tone/volume,etc)!

redir · #14 05-02-2019, 09:29 AM

I never heard that Gibson used HHG either. I think that needs to be cleared up. They have a history of using all kinds of stuff. Resorcinol is one that comes to mind. Gibson is also famous for their 'tone snot,' the glue drips that form all over the inside of the guitars.

redir · #15 05-02-2019, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonWint

HHG used on the main factory floor under heat lamps. "Authentic" top gluing at 2018 open house.

That's the way I do it too, heat lamps. I think in the 'old days' they had special rooms. So yeah seems like a hefty upcharge but again if people are paying for it then that's all that matters.