amp quest

[eyesore]

Hi I played a car show gig last night with old band members. Might have few more. Anyway; I play my old Tele thru a small Bugera amp[5 watts]. It sounds good enough when I play here at home ,but with a whole band ,it doesn't cut thru. Even when i mic thru the PA it sounds distorted. I like a nice clean tone. Question ;is a Blues Jr too much for just home and not enough for a band .. sorry for long post . Thanks!

[Br1ck]

Dependent on the PA. You can mic any amp. Hard to go wrong with a Deluxe Reverb. At home get an attenuator. Throwing money at the problem works too. Carr, Tone King, etc. all can pad to 2 watts or so at home.

Another method to explore is to get a powered speaker like a QSC K12 and something like a Strymon Iridium. You can use the K 12 as an acoustic amp too.

[eyesore]

Thanks Br1ck .. oops I think i wanted to post this on "electric guitar " forum.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by eyesore

Hi I played a car show gig last night with old band members. Might have few more. Anyway; I play my old Tele thru a small Bugera amp[5 watts]. It sounds good enough when I play here at home ,but with a whole band ,it doesn't cut thru. Even when i mic thru the PA it sounds distorted. I like a nice clean tone. Question ;is a Blues Jr too much for just home and not enough for a band .. sorry for long post . Thanks!

Hi es…
What size speaker in your Bugera?

If you were distorting with a mic, you were over driving the mic through the PA. Input gain (the amount of volume you allow into the mic channel) should be around -18 (pre distortion limit of the board).

Then you can turn the channel up in the house without distorting it.

Your 5 Watt Bugera's power will be as good as a Blues Junior when it comes to cutting through the band ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT TO CUT THROUGH A BAND WITHOUT DISTORTION USING ONLY AN AMP.

I own/use a Blues Jr (is only 15 watts) and I get clean output, it's not as crystal clear as a Fender Twin or other large Fender amp with a clean channel. For that kind of 'clean' you need more power, and circuits built to produce clean tone at high volumes.

[Methos1979]

Blues Junior is okay but for awesome clean playing I much preferred the PRRI (Princeton Reverb Re-Issue).

[eyesore]

The Bugera has an 8 inch speaker. it cut thru ok with a mic in front of it, but kinda dirty sounding.

[posternutbag]

I really like the tone of a Telecaster through a Blues Junior. It sounds like the guitar tone for the solo on the Paul Butterfield Band version of Walkin Blues. That being said, not sure it’s got enough power for a full band, especially clean. The Princeton Reissue is a nice amp, but I’m not sure it’s a better solution.

A Blues Deluxe is 40 watts through a 12 inch speaker for $800.

A Deluxe Reverb is a fantastic option, 22 watts through a 1x12”, but they are over $1000.

I have a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb that I love for applications like this. 22 watts that can be stepped down to 12 watts, 5 watts, 1 watt, .5 watts or whisper quiet .2 watts. It also weighs 23lbs. I used it for a group, 2 guitars (I was mostly lead), harp, bass and drums. 12 watts at volume 7 was enough for plenty of volume with a little breakup. If I had used the full 22 watts I could have been super clean at around 5 on the volume.

[Steve DeRosa]

Step up to the Bugera V22 1x12" combo for around $400: enough power for a 600-700 seat hall clean as you need or dirty as you want (or mike it up for clean tone on bogger gigs), powers down for home practice without losing tone (and the triode mode opens up a whole 'nother set of sonic options, mostly of the British pre-Top Boost/18-watt Plexi variety), switchable OD and mid-boost for when you want the grit, drives an extension cab (up to and including a 4x12") when you need more coverage, tube swaps are a plug-&-play affair (no $100 trips to your friendly local tech for a bias job) - and if that's still not enough clean power you can have both the big-brother V55 and the V22 for ~$300 less than a '65 Deluxe Reverb RI...

[M Sarad]

I'm using Tweed Deluxes, an old Fender and a 20 year old Victoria. The Deluxe Reverb is too loud.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by eyesore

Hi I played a car show gig last night with old band members. Might have few more. Anyway; I play my old Tele thru a small Bugera amp[5 watts]. It sounds good enough when I play here at home ,but with a whole band ,it doesn't cut thru. Even when i mic thru the PA it sounds distorted. I like a nice clean tone. Question ;is a Blues Jr too much for just home and not enough for a band .. sorry for long post . Thanks!

Try swapping out the preamp tube for a 12AT7. Should give you more headroom for clean tone. Worked for my Epiphone Valve Jr. $13 for a tube is a lot cheaper than $600 for a new valve amp. A 12AU7 could be worth a try too.

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by eyesore

Hi I played a car show gig last night with old band members. Might have few more. Anyway; I play my old Tele thru a small Bugera amp[5 watts]. It sounds good enough when I play here at home ,but with a whole band ,it doesn't cut thru. Even when i mic thru the PA it sounds distorted. I like a nice clean tone. Question ;is a Blues Jr too much for just home and not enough for a band .. sorry for long post . Thanks!

My experience seems different from that of some others. I don't see why anyone would expect a 5 watt amp to cut through much of anything. I've seen guys play gigs, and sound very good, with a modeler of some sort through a Blues Junior but I'd be surprised if you could get much of a clean tone at stage volume. If clean is important, you need something with some headroom. The "you can just mic it" response misses some difficulties involved in playing a low-wattage amp quietly enough to get a good clean tone and still producing a signal strong enough for FOH to work with without creating gain-staging problems. I can get there with my Mesa 5:25 Plus, but not with much room for error. 50 watts should work fine though.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Step up to the Bugera V22 1x12" combo for around $400: enough power for a 600-700 seat hall clean as you need or dirty as you want (or mike it up for clean tone on bogger gigs), powers down for home practice without losing tone (and the triode mode opens up a whole 'nother set of sonic options, mostly of the British pre-Top Boost/18-watt Plexi variety), switchable OD and mid-boost for when you want the grit, drives an extension cab (up to and including a 4x12") when you need more coverage, tube swaps are a plug-&-play affair (no $100 trips to your friendly local tech for a bias job) - and if that's still not enough clean power you can have both the big-brother V55 and the V22 for ~$300 less than a '65 Deluxe Reverb RI...

The last time I played out, I set my V22 in half-power mode, just like I do at home, and let the microphone and PA system handle the volume. It worked out very well!

[rmp]

Maybe give a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb a try? not sure what your budget is..

I have the blonde version and really like what it does

(I have other amps, all tube, 3 marshalls and a Fender 4x10 deville)

The tone masters are solid state modelers but IMO they are very good.

They are available as Twin, Deluxe and a newly introduced Super Reverb versions

The power attenuator the Tone Masters have allow quite a wide range of power setting capabilities. It's a 100 watt power stage with attenuation from 22 watt all the down to 1 watt.

Real nice sounding reverb and a very authentic sounding tremolo if that's any interest.



Check the demos on the Fender web site for more details, I think they are really spot on for what they are.

[FrankHudson]

A lot of good responses up thread. I'll add one more thing: on stage, in a full band mix, treble and upper midrange is your friend; and gain, bass response, and lower midrange can be your foe. My thoughts on this may be outdated (no recent gigging, old gigging in low-facilities places), but "cut" in my old experience is different than loudness or what you may think of as "my tone" when you're using your amp at home alone or playing along with backing tracks or recordings.

I have not used your Bugera, but some have mentioned it's not a bright black-panel Fender kind of sound. At your gig, if stuck in that situation, I might try some EQ if I had an EQ pedal, and if not I'd consider doing what I could with the amp or any gain stomp box to cut lows and maximize highs. When I gigged with my OG Fender Princeton I often used a OG Cry Baby always on in he down position as a treble boost. And that's with a Telecaster and the Princeton is a fairly bright voiced amp as well. Oh, and I'd often put the Princeton on a chair or riser.

More modern giggers who contract this may be better informed however. And Steve's "having some clean headroom with more watts and speaker" advice is likely in that category then and now.

[Ralph124C41]

I'm a "retired" bassist so I haven't played any of my guitar tube amps out on a gig ... but I own a first-generation Bugera V22 (that I've connected to a Marshall 2x12 cab) and I used to own a Blues Junior. I've played the Bugera V5 ... and frankly as much as I enjoy my V22 I really hated the sound of the V5. It's a very dark-sounding amp, I think, and I don't like the speaker at all. I really just didn't like it for cleans.

All of these choices are good. I've seen plenty of guitarists who have played as small to large venues with just a Blues Junior but often miced into the PA system. I do agree that normally more power give you more headroom so you can play with a minimal gain setting to get better cleans. And remember, as others have said, a 8-inch speaker can just give you so much if that is all you are using. I much prefer an amp with a 12-inch speaker as a starting point.

If you don't want to spend a lot (like me) and want something new I'd recommend either a V22 or the Monoprice 15 watt tube amp that has a real spring reverb, unlike the digital one in the V22.