Figuring out octaves

[Deliberate1]

Friends, I am in the process of learning the notes on the fret board. Attempting to memorize their location did not work. I could learn all the E's and A's etc, and forwards and back, but it just turned out to be like memorizing a song where I basically had to go through each desired note on each string to get to the one I wanted.
So I figured I would do better to learn the notes by reading musical notation, which I can do as a long time woodwinds player. So I got the sheet music for "Autumn Leaves," in G, and figured out the notes as I went along. And it worked well. I have learned some notes to play by sight. But, again, the more I played it, the more it became memorization, rather than sight reading.
I figured I would move to octaves, to keep the same song, but create some cognitive confusion. But then I confronted the pitch/octave dilemma.
One of the challenges I face coming from woodwinds is the two dimsionality of the guitar. With my horns, it is simple. Up is higher pitch, down is lower, generally speaking. But the guitar has identical pitches played more than one way, like C played 1st fret/second string and third string/5th fret.
So to my question. Is there a "formula" to determine how to find an octave vs an identical pitch played on a different string. Many thanks for the help.

[NormanKliman]

In standard tuning, there are two main “grips” that you apply to different string sets and at different points along the fretboard. For example, one is fifth string seventh fret and third string ninth fret, and the other is fifth string seventh fret and second string fifth fret. There’s another, fourth string second fret and second string fifth fret, but it’s a version of the first grip.

[stanron]

Think of how you tune the open strings (if you don't have a tuner). On the three lowest string and on the B string you have an octave on the next string five frets down.

On the G string you have an octave on the next string four frets down


On the two lowest strings, E and A, you get an octave two strings and two frets up.

On the next two strings, D and G, you get an octave two strings and three frets up.

Think of name notes in bar chords.

[Chipotle]

A good way to visualize this is to... well, visualize it. On a piece of paper.

Draw a guitar neck. Then take a pencil and plot out all of a particular note. Highlight notes that are in the same octave in different colors. The patterns should become apparent.

Full disclosure, I swiped this idea from a TrueFire course. The instructor has you write out scales, intervals, triads etc. over the whole neck, in different keys, to help with fretboard visualization.

[rick-slo]

Say you learn a bunch of octave intervals and the like sort of stuff. Then what? What is the goal?
For me it's playing tunes, timing, accuracy,... What's important in what I work on is within the
tunes I learn to play.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

One of the challenges I face coming from woodwinds is the two dimsionality of the guitar. With my horns, it is simple. Up is higher pitch, down is lower, generally speaking. But the guitar has identical pitches played more than one way, like C played 1st fret/second string and third string/5th fret.

This is a feature, not a bug!
IMHO, this 'feature' is possibly the biggest impediment to learning the entire fretboard, as opposed to a small portion of it.

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

So I figured I would do better to learn the notes by reading musical notation, which I can do as a long time woodwinds player. So I got the sheet music for "Autumn Leaves," in G, and figured out the notes as I went along. And it worked well. I have learned some notes to play by sight. But, again, the more I played it, the more it became memorization, rather than sight reading.

You are going in the right direction, but you need to keep going. Take Autumn Leaves and learn as many ALTERNATE ways to finger it as is practical.
e.g. 1st note: open high E string vs. B string 5th fret vs. G string 9th fret vs. D string 14th fret.
Also transposition helps - find the melody notes in C (Am). You will start to notice some patterns.
Recognizing shapes and patterns is a major step in knowing your fretboard.

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

So to my question. Is there a "formula" to determine how to find an octave vs an identical pitch played on a different string.

I've never heard of one that was useful.
One issue is the discontinuity of standard tuning. 4th+4th+4th+major 3rd+4th. This means that there are always TWO possible 'formulas' involving two or more strings that depend on which string(s) you include.
(If standard tuning was stacked fourths, guitar would have shapes and patterns that apply everywhere without exception.)

One (sort of) rule of thumb is that unisons are easy to find on adjacent strings but hard to play on non-adjacent strings.
Conversely, octaves are easy to play on non-adjacent strings but hard to play on adjacent strings.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Friends, I am in the process of learning the notes on the fret board. Attempting to memorize their location did not work.

You gave up too soon. You don't have to learn everything at once. Just learn where all the "C"s are for instance (in standard tuning) and live with that for a while. Once you know where all/most of the "C"'s are, learning where the "D"s are is easy.

Start with C. Learn the location and remember the tone.

There are duplicate tones also:

8th fret, 6th string = 3rd fret, 5th string
14th fret, 4th String = 1st fret, 2nd string
5th fret, 3rd string = 1st fret, 2nd string


Etc, so for now just learn

3rd fret 5th string
1st fret, 2nd string
8th fret, 1st string

Those are the octaves. Don't rush it. Just learn those three. When you feel comfortable, then learn the where the octaves of D are, should be pretty obvious where they are, but you want to learn them without counting up from C eventually. In the beginning its ok.