12 String Tips?

[Tenzin]

One song I always loved playing on a 12-String is I've Just Seen A Face by The Beatles. The others mentioned here are also great.

Enjoy!

[Oldguy64]

I play nearly the same on my 12 as I do on the sixes.
As for the capo, I’ve become a huge fan of the Paige 12-string capo.
It has little rubber rings that provide pressure on the octave EABg Strings and less pressure on the standard strings, so the tuning isn’t thrown off as much.

I tend toward string sets with a .010 ga octave G.
That is the string that is most likely to break when tuning up or down.
Also tune the octave G down first and tune it up last. I’ve broken less oactave G’s since I started doing that.

Otherwise, play it often so it doesn’t feel awkward to change from six to twelve.

[Epiphone100]

Have to say here, my two main tips are.......tune her down low, a full tone.......and put lifespan strings on 'cos it's probably gonna spend a while on its stand !!!!!!!
Afraid mine does and I actually love 12 strings but somehow never actually play them !!!!!!

[zombywoof]

Both of my 12 string guitars are old - one being around 80 and the other having turned 57 so for me tuning down is not a matter of sound but of survival. I would imagine though that modern guitars are built to withstand tuning to pitch. Even with tuning down 1 1/2 steps, I still string with Newtones which are wound on a round core. My wife, however, has a newish Martin D12-28 which she tunes to pitch and strings with Martin Lifespans.

As for set list, while the day has not come that I am going to play a John Denver song on any guitar, I pretty much play the same stuff on both six and 12 strings. Certain songs like Leadbelly's "John Hardy" lose their thunder when played on a six string. Others like Scrapper Blackwell's "Blues in A" or Rev. Gary Davis' "Cincinnati Flow Rag" to me sound even better on a 12 string than with what they were originally recorded with.

On those days when our living room turns into a picking parlor, I tend to break the 12 string out for tunes such as Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here," Tom Petty's "Louisiana Rain ," and, of course, the Byrds "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better."

[EdEd]

That guitar is designed to be tuned EADGBe... IMO, that’s how it should be tuned. If it’s hard to play, get a setup done... especially nut slots.

Songs? Up to you. I play a fair number of Leadbelly tunes on mine. Lots of folky stuff, mostly strumming.

And, I’ll go along with the play it a lot. You’ll build up the specific muscles and develop muscle memory.

Ed

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Mark L

The "secret" to the 12 string is no secret at all, but simply this:

Play every day.

'Nuff said.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Oldguy64

I play nearly the same on my 12 as I do on the sixes.
As for the capo, I’ve become a huge fan of the Paige 12-string capo.
It has little rubber rings that provide pressure on the octave EABg Strings and less pressure on the standard strings, so the tuning isn’t thrown off as much.

I tend toward string sets with a .010 ga octave G.
That is the string that is most likely to break when tuning up or down.
Also tune the octave G down first and tune it up last. I’ve broken less oactave G’s since I started doing that.

Otherwise, play it often so it doesn’t feel awkward to change from six to twelve.

Haven't tried that capo yet, but now I will. Thanks, Oldguy64.

From another old guy,
Don

[BoneDigger]

I tune down a half step, not because I need to, but because I think it reduces the jangle a little and just sounds great. I also tend to not use huge, sweeping strums but use shorter strums instead.

[donlyn]

Denise (Guitars+gems),

Five decades of 12 string play, and what follows is where I am now. This is literally a 'different strokes' thing. What works for one person may not be good for others. Try everything, and re-visit what didn't work sometime down the road. You have to do what works for you, and you have to keep an open mind. What follows are my variations and adaptations only. There are no wrong answers, just different takes.

I mostly finger pick, or more correctly fingernail pick. While I would play anything on a 12 that I play on a 6, there are some pieces that definitely sound better in octave. Biggest difference for me is that I play a 12 string a lot louder than a 6. I like the 'wall of sound', with a nod to Phil.

When I do capo, I use a Shubb 12 string capo. I normally only capo selectively, and only on songs that seem necessary. For example, "Here comes the Sun". On a 6 string, I capo 7th and use a "D" form to play in "A", which I believe is the way George does it. But where he plays flat-picked triplets, I have adapted to finger picking. (On a ukulele, I capo 2nd fret to do the same thing.) But on a 12 string, I either play it in un-capoed "D" form (which would be D-flat for me now), or play it in un-capoed A (A-flat) using lots of open strings an octave and a half lower than George.

Barre chords can be played, but for sonic reasons I like open strings where possible. So on "Wild Horses" I use a basic G chord with a barre B-minor for opening strums, and sometimes just a 4 finger version (no barre) for some picking. Keith normally omits the bass E string when playing, and often plays a custom 10 string guitar. Anyway learn and practice barre chords and also 3 and 4 string chord variants of the barre chords, especially the F# minor. To my ears, the best sounding chord on a 12 string is a basic A, and you can fiddle your fretting fingers a bit to do things like "Needles and Pins" (Searchers and Petty versions), but songs in A do like their relative minor, F#. 'Needles' basic verse is A, F# minor, D (with similar finger fiddle) and E. (Finger fiddle involves A, A9, A, Asus4, and A. Same pattern for D.) Also "Refugee" starts on F# minor, followed with A and E. So again, I would recommend learning barre chords, especially the E major, E minor, and A minor forms. And maybe use sparingly. Also learn 3 and 4 string fretted chord variants of needed barre chords,

I use Elixir light gauge 12 string. A Taylor recommendation for sure, but I do like them. Maybe because they're coated and my fingers don't sweat much, coupled with my procrastination about changing strings. I do remember reading somewhere that Petty and Campbell shared a lot of their guitars, and they never did get around to changing strings on their electric 12 string. Ever.

Used to tune down a whole step (see your other thread), but now tune down a half step. About alternate tunings, 12 strings are difficult to tune, and harder to keep in tune. If you don't have an electronic tuner, please get one. And if you do open tune your 12, it will require a second pass through the strings for tuning, as the first strings you 'tuned' will be slightly out of tune after you 're-tune' the last ones. And do check all the strings, because the constant change in tension is the cause of this.

The fretboard is usually wider on a 12 than a steel string 6 and may require some adaptation in fretting and playing choices. Might even require a different guitar playing position. For what it's worth, my fingers are maybe slightly smaller than average, which sometimes requires a bit of a work-around, but overall it's the usual work that makes it happen.

If you can't already, after a while you will be so familiar with the sound of a 12 string that you will be able to hear it in recordings, even when it's lost in the mix. And when you do, there's another song to add to your learning list.

Don't be upset if you learn something partially or don't like the result. Oddly enough you may be able to use it in the future. I have learned bits and pieces but not the whole song, but sometimes I later go back and fill it out. For example, fiddling around with 2 note claw picking one day, I stumbled into the intro to "Spanish Harlem". So I learned most of the intro and melody, but couldn't find a few notes to close the verse properly. So I kept playing the notes/chords and trying new things. This kept up off and on for years. Finally one day I just happened to try what turned out to be the right stuff, and there it was. So now I use the instrumental part as the outro to the song with a ritard to end on the last note/chord. Which is the same first note/chord to "Maria Elena", a 40's song resurrected in the early sixties as an instrumental guitar duet by Los Indios Tabajares. The resulting medley sounds amazing on a 12 string.

Anyway, there's been a lot of recommendations for 12 string songs already, but keep in mind that any song can be a good 12 string song. I play Perkins/Beatles' "Honey Don't" on 12 string sometimes (love the octave bass runs), as well as Stones "Factory Girl", a song made for 12 string claw picking. Someone mentioned Lead Belly earlier, and most of his work was on a 12 string tuned 2 whole steps low with heavy strings. I do some ragtime stuff on 12 string, including some of his. Ragtime and 12 strings mix wonderfully.

Try what songs have been recommended and see if they are right for you. Also consider any song to be a 12 string song until proven otherwise. Mentioned earlier was the Beatles' "I've Just Seen A Face". This is a 12 string mainstay for me. Play with a country picking style. The intro is 4 different ascending versions of an E minor chord. And the guitar break sounds great when led by the bass strings of a 12 string. "You've got to Hide your Love Away" is another. Many Beatles songs were done on or sound great on a 12. Stones used a 12 on a lot of songs too.

My dark horse candidate is Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman". The actual recording opened with measures of Orbison playing THAT lick on an acoustic 12 string, and then it disappears from the edit. Story is that Orbison was playing around on a borrowed 12 string when he came up with that song. If you compose, take inspiration from the Orbison story.

I would re-iterate that all the posts tell you what works for the posters, and that includes me. I don't necessarily believe there is a right way for everyone, just whatever works. However be open to new things, as your style will change as you play.

Well sorry, this ran long, but thanks for reading. I believe that playing a nice guitar makes me want to play better and thus improves my play. So enjoy your beautiful new Taylor 12 string, and make it sing.

Don

[robj144]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

I have not noticed more difficulty in playing barre chords on the 12 string. Does yours need a set-up?

Same here. My Guild is as to play as a 6 string.

[Pitar]

Barre chords just take a bit more finesse than they do on a 6-string to play cleanly. It's more a mental thing than a physical one but it will come with study. I played a 12 like I did a 6. Because I stick to finger picking I swapped the D & G courses to put the octaves of those strings toward the treble side. I had to rework the nut to do that but it was worth it. Otherwise the G octave, in particular, was not fully sounded with each upward pluck of the finger. The mention of stepping down is a good idea but a whole step might take a set-up to keep the strings at their optimum height. Gauge-wise, I did put on a hybrid mix of gauges to suit my ear. I also changed them every 6 weeks when all I played was 12 string. That said, after a succession of 12 string guitars I divested the last one 12 years ago.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

Any technique tips related to 12 string guitars? How about some barre chord advice? I got serious about practicing them, on 6 strings, 3 weeks ago and have improved a lot. But on 12 strings? I suppose it's just a matter of repetition again, but is there a different way you place your thumb or something, in order to get all the strings to ring?

Denise,

I took it quite literally that you just started to 'seriously' play barre chords, and presumed what you really need is practice. That said, practice one, say E major form barre chords, up and down the neck every day for a week. Then see how you do on 12 string, and go back to 6 string again for a week. Rinse and repeat, maybe adding in A minor form barre chords. (The E minor form is just one finger less that the E major.) That way you will see progress easier and gain a sense of accomplishment. After finger location, maybe learned on 6 string, the hardest part may be finger strength on 12 string, along with a wider fretboard for complication. Cheer up, even after 50 years you won't hit 'em clearly all the time, so don't panic. And on the bright side, if you strum, you won't notice mistakes as much.

I like to think your fingers (And Thumb) will get to know where they're supposed to go. The tips of the fingers should angle perpendicular to the fretboard so only the tip is in contact with the strings. Hopefully your thumb will naturally go to the right spot to offer the best support. Might have to learn to push your fretting hand a little further forward under the guitar to accomplish the right contact angles.

When doing the E minor form, I find my temporarily somewhat useless middle finger (the one that 'salutes') now has time to creep over and reinforce my index finger across all 6 or 12 strings. Does help a bit, especially with that pesky F# minor barre chord.

In the meantime, just keep using basic chords on your 12 until you get to the point of being confident with your barre chords. Even just being able to add the F# minor and B minor barre chords to your quiver should mesh nicely with what you're doing with basic chords. And your songs in A and D keys will appreciate it too.

Don

[donlyn]

A nice song on which to practice 12 string is "Knocking on Heaven's Door" by Bob Dylan, from the movie "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid".

Verse and chorus the same,

G, D, Am
G, D, C
G, D, Am
G, D, C

Youtube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWkTR4S25ro

for:

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Barre chords just take a bit more finesse than they do on a 6-string to play cleanly.

Funny because on my Taylor 12-string barre chords are actually easier than any of my 6-string guitars.

I don't play my 12 string any differently, at least when it comes to strumming. Haven't quite mastered finger style.

[Guitars+gems]

Wow, I am so loving all of this help! I'm taking it all seriously and will try most of it.

Thanks, Steve DeRosa, for letting me know about the Retros - I love them and didn't realize they were available for 12 string! Also, I had forgotten about The Seekers, so thanks for the reminder.

Donlyn, I especially thank you for taking the time to type all that valuable advice up! Are you a teacher? If so, you must be a very supportive one. I can't wait to try Pretty Woman. And yes, I do keep in mind that people are giving me what works for them, and that we all have different drummers.

To those of you who asked about my set-up, I don't think that's the issue with my barres. I've only recently been getting them good on my 6 strings, so I think it's just an adjustment of my thumb, plus practice, that's needed. As Pitar said, more finesse. Though I agree that the open strings have a better sound, I want to own barre chords 'cause I have this idea, which I'll probably disabused from as soon as I get them down, that if I could play barres, I could play anything!