guitar instructor problems

[lewisbeeman]

So I have been playing off and on for about ten years and I have a good base and on most styles but nothing too advanced. I can finger pick a little bit and strum pretty well and just starting to flat pick. So my dilemma comes in when I started taking lessons. I wanted my instructor to assess where I was and go from there and teach me. I really like him and he can jam. But he is not doing a good job on formulating a plan and teaching me in a direction. It is kind of a week by week approach with not much direction. I find that I have to tell him what to teach me and it changes from week to week. I want to let him know I want and need to have curriculum. I just don't know how to go about it with out being a jerk or just go somewhere else for lessons. Any advise would be great.

[ewalling]

I've never taken guitar lessons. Do the people you guys have lessons with have any training as guitar teachers? Because as with anything, it's one skill to be able to do it, but a very different skill to teach it. I would imagine that a good guitar teacher should have a comprehensive knowledge of tutor materials, together with a range of approaches to facilitate learning.

[skillet]

If you're making it clear to him what your needs are and he isn't coming around, then it may be time to find a new teacher. As stated above, being a good player is one thing, being able to teach someone else to be a good player is completely different. While I fully understand getting semi-'attached' to someone and feeling guilty about walking away, you have to remember you're paying him for a service and if he can't deliver the goods, then you're wasting your time and money.

[Fambroski]

Originally Posted by lewisbeeman

I just don't know how to go about it with out being a jerk or just go somewhere else for lessons. Any advise would be great.

You're not being a jerk. You're being wise and efficient. Being a great player is one thing, being a great teacher is another. And good teachers are hard to find. Sounds like this isn't the right match for you. Keep searching. In the meantime books and youtube are fine substitutes.

M

[Jack Orion]

I'm in a similar position to you (though I'm not that 'buddy-ish' with my teacher) - see my post http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=158025 for details...

If I was in your situation (ie. liking the teacher but not the teaching, so to speak) I would possibly try a tactful approach -

"Hey, I really like jamming with you, but could we maybe try this?"

Or maybe getting another teacher and just meet with this guy on a social level - if you enjoy his company and playing there might even be the seeds of a 'band' there!

Good luck

[Fliss]

I had a similar problem with my teacher when I started taking lessons with him about a year ago. I really wanted someone to just map things out for me and give me some specific goals to work towards. But after a while and a few discussions after he'd tried to introduce things that I either wasn't ready for or interested in (like open C tuning) we got to a position where he had a much better idea of what I was interested in and started to suggest songs for me to learn (and in learning those songs I learned techniques I could use in other things) and I started to appreciate what I was learning and to be more open to his rather flexible approach.

Bottom line, it became more fun and I found I was really making progress - to the extent that all my jamming buddies noticed the difference.

I don't know if that is any help to you or not. It may be that your teacher simply isn't the right teacher for you, but it may be that with a few discussions you'll be able to either find a way to work with your current teacher, or decide that it's time to move on.

Fliss

[Brian85]

Well my questions is whether or not you are the problem? Are you asking your teacher to jump around various topics, never learning the basics and what not? I know with my teacher, it does sometimes feel like we're doing something that I dont get the point of, but after two or there more lessons, I understand why he had to teach me the stuff that I thought was useless.

Also, when I first set out looking for lessons, I wanted someone to teach me slide blues guitar, Robert Johnson stuff, open tuning/fingerpicking and songwriting skills. We still havent done anything specific like that. And thats fine because now I think of my lessons are my theory. No one can "teach" me those styles of playing. No ones going to teach me to play the SRV licks. Thats something I need to do on my own and practice like I used to in highschool. BUT I'll always have my instructor there to tell me the theory behind it and explain to me where the music comes from.

So in that sense, Im very happy with my instructor. He can teach me the abstract theory and I can learn any technique on my own. Its not hard to open up a tab book and practice.

But then again, if your teacher isnt even doing that, get a new one!

[Guitarchick]

I began teaching guitar last year. I had people asking me for lessons even though i play by ear. I teach them the basics and then move on to intermediate guitar lessons. The majority of my students are kids 8 to 16 years old. They get very bored with the beginner books so i basically teach them chords, strumming patterns, riffs, and how to play songs. This is what they want. If they want fingerpicking, scales, etc, i teach them but i don't push trying to teach them to learn certain styles that they arent interested in. They start to get bored and i can tell that 30 minutes is getting long for them. I tell the parents exactly what i can and can't teach teach so that THEY can decide if i'm the kind of teacher they want for their child. If a student feels they arent learning what it it is that they are wanting to learn, i want to know. I would not be offended because i have been honest with them from the beginning as to what it is i will teach them.

[tlguitars]

Guitar teachers: (I've taught for 15 years)

I've been these three types of teachers:

1. Music store (17 year old) "teacher" who plays well, in bands in town, self taught, green to real technique. Bad. I only showed how to read tab, chords, and fed my students songs that they chose, or off CDs, or the Radio because it was easy and it kept them interested. Bad.

2. After getting my performance major all I taught was technique. Bad. No fun.

Here's the deal, it takes a guitar teacher 4+ years to get to know "how to teach" in a qualitative way (at a minimum). Anyone one who tells you otherwise is covering up their "greenness" You haev to learn and develop inorder to be able to take the students wants and translate that into an education on the instrument.

3. Current and final perspective, educate on the instrument as an instrument not just how to play the favorite songs, or style. I taught (currently build only) my 8 year olds to 70 year olds all styles, all forms, the history, the technique, everything. I wanted them to be able to play the new Green Day Album now when they're 16, to be able to listen to an old CD by some random Japanese girl band to learn his girlfriends favorite song by ear so he can change the words at just the right spot and propose at 26, learn and read standard Chord Charts so he can play "the standards" at Grandma and Grandpa's 50th aniv. at age 30, standard notation so he can play "the Bach Cello suite in G" at his daughters wedding age 49, and be able to handle a slide and play old school folk, funk, blues, and fingerstyle at age 63. Finnaly, Bluegrass at age 70 because you always have to have a challenge!!!

If you don't feel like your getting enough structure out of your lessons, be direct and upfront. Say, "I would really love it if we could figure out a lesson plan so I can make sure I'm getting what I want and I can also track my own progression by using the weekly lesson plans as my goals for the week and my playing in general."

Don't be afraid to say, "While I like to "Jam" (I hate hearing that, to me it means your teacher isn't teaching he's showing what he can do) I would really like to feel like you have a focused plan for me."

It's ok to say, "I don't feel like I'm being taught, just shown some things when we "Jam." If your teacher cares about his students he'll take it as a chance to focus himself on educating you better.

Good Luck, be upfront. If your posting here you should be direct with him at your next lesson.

Todd

[Yoder]

Originally Posted by skillet

If you're making it clear to him what your needs are and he isn't coming around, then it may be time to find a new teacher.

Bingo.

I think a lot of instructors fear chasing off their students--especially in this economy. Consequently, many of them tend to play it safe knowing that to go in a specific direction will require some work on the part of the student.

You should write/outline where you want to go with your guitar playing. Set some goals. Once you have done this, then present it to your instructor and see if he can take you there. If he cannot, then it is time to bail.

[Guyute]

Finding a good guitar instructor is a lot like finding a good therapist. You have to keep looking until you find someone you mesh with.

[dustint]

I had a similar issue with my instructor. Im sure it was as much me changing direction or whatever, he did have a certain path we would go down but it drifted and I felt like I was just jamming with him with occasional technique thrown in.

Heres what I did to resolve this and give us a good direction to go in that satisfied my wants in the lessons.

I found a good book to guide us. It worked really well. I could work on the concepts in the book on my own, then play for him and he could really pick out small issues I had with technique or timiing that I wasnt picking up on. You might want to try something like this because it gives you both a guided path without alot of guess work. I chose 'Blues you can use' as it has a good technique progression and is a style Ive been working on. I took lessons years ago and my instructor at the time had his own set of books he had me follow and I hated it. I think that for me to be able to pick the book I wanted to play from made a huge difference for me.

Good Luck

[wthurman]

Never had a guitar teacher. But I had years of trumpet teachers, and while guitar is a more "populist" instrument, I think some of the same things apply.

1. There are bad habits that need to be overcome, along with basic techniques that must be taught. Therefore, exercises that are pretty boring overall are necessary. But when added to songs that may not be what the student thinks he or she wants, but are used to help solidify those basics, it works well. An interested student will work on what he or she wants on the side, especially once a student begins to improve technically.

2. As time goes on, more practical applications are employed... more songs and compositions, some different than the student wants and some the same. More advanced exercises and etudes come into play as well. This is a real growth point, expanding technique, expression, and musical interests and respect for more genres.

3. This is where the student has progressed to the point that he or she can most times work things out technically on his or her own. I used to call this the "psychological" stage, because my teacher would express things in terms of other physical sensations - pushing notes, pulling notes, but not in time but using carefully developed emotional interpretations.

Not all teachers can do all three well... a good teacher will know when it's time to tell the student to move on, and might even have a good suggestion as to who the next teacher might be.

I know it's not exactly the same - but I will say that as students, we go to teachers to be taught. That means we will be learning things we didn't intend along with the things we did. That's one of the strange things about students. We don't know how to play but think we know all the steps and when it doesn't make sense, we balk.

I have a friend who played basketball but could not dunk. He told his HS coach he wanted to be able to dunk and asked what to do. The answer? "This summer, run five miles every morning on the beach, rain or shine." What??? No basketballs, no practicing jumping?

That fall, when he returned to school, he could dunk, thanks to advice that made no sense to him at the time.

It's important to find a good teacher, and one you trust and like. But sometimes, it's also important to stick around when it doesn't quite make sense.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by lewisbeeman

So I have been playing off and on for about ten years and I have a good base and on most styles but nothing too advanced. I can finger pick a little bit and strum pretty well and just starting to flat pick. So my dilemma comes in when I started taking lessons. I wanted my instructor to assess where I was and go from there and teach me. I really like him and he can jam. But he is not doing a good job on formulating a plan and teaching me in a direction. It is kind of a week by week approach with not much direction. I find that I have to tell him what to teach me and it changes from week to week. I want to let him know I want and need to have curriculum. I just don't know how to go about it with out being a jerk or just go somewhere else for lessons. Any advise would be great.

Hi Lewis...
As a guitar teacher one of the first things I determine with students is what they intend to learn, and second, I let them know how I teach.

If those two don't match, we don't end up in a student/teacher relationship and we stay friends.

If my students cannot articulate to me what they need to learn, then I'm left to try to figure out what they need to learn.

If you are looking for a systematic approach, then you need to tell the teacher that so they can either find you one or let you go elsewhere.

It seems to me that 21st century acoustic guitar lessons are more about learning to play a variety of styles and songs (being equipped as a journeyman) than about scales, note reading etc. unless you seek out a systematic teacher.

College guitar teachers often employ systems which include scales, etudes, and assignments with performance in mind...

[JeremyG]

Wow, there's a wealth of information to be read here. Many, many of the posts made by you accomplished guys/gals/teachers/experienced players have hit home for me.

I can so relate. One issue that becomes clear is that you've spent a good portions of your lives getting into this instrument and loving the journey. That only invigorates the learning lust, the digging to find out something to enable you to go where you want to individually go.

I think we're all a bit different in that final goal. Me, I "...just want to learn to play the blues!" I can see the eyes rolling in some of you. There's so much in that statement!

It's a lifestyle, this music is. And a real learned talent from just being able to strum in time to digging and learning enough theory to dissect a song and do some improv.

I think I came to this party much too late but at the same time I'm only too happy to have returned! I have another hobby (split cane/bamboo fly rod building...just beginning) that I thought was all encompassing. That, as I'm comparing it to music and guitar playing, is a breeze.

There's just not enough time...

I really appreciate these posts. It tells much and I can so see myself in the info given. Mostly it involves patience! I struggle with patience. And that's a good thing to master!

Jeremy.