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  #1  
Old 08-13-2018, 04:04 PM
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El Conquistador El Conquistador is offline
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Default Wow, tough market for classicals

I am stunned that it's such a tough market for classical guitars.

Steve
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Last edited by Kerbie; 08-13-2018 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Removed details
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:40 PM
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riorider riorider is offline
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S, meaning tough to sell? I haven't looked for one lately so I don't know. One of my friends just had one built in ABQ for him by a relatively new luthier - although this guy's been building for 40 years it's been a hobby, and now he's rented space in the Old Town area and is making some nice ones (apparently!).

And, fairly inexpensive, say 1/3 to 1/2 of the price you and I expect to pay for a bespoke OO from a reputable builder.

I know I've thought about putting one or two of mine up for sale (but it's hard to choose which child to sell!), so I've been watching the classifieds. Seems there's not quite as many as some seasons over the past few years.

And / or maybe there's general distrust with the economy - risk of correction or pendulum swings.

Cheers,

Phil
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:50 PM
cobalt60 cobalt60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Conquistador View Post
I am stunned that it's such a tough market for classical guitars.

Steve

In which direction? I see top luthiers' prices are higher than ever, Guitar Salon selling all tiers of instruments quickly, wider appreciation for historical pieces, and a larger array than ever of "good to great" guitars available at the most affordable prices ever.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:08 PM
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El Conquistador El Conquistador is offline
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I meant "used" classical guitars in the classifieds.

Steve
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Last edited by Kerbie; 08-14-2018 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Removed details.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:36 PM
smwink smwink is offline
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My perception is that the classical market is just smaller in general compared to steel string acoustic, electric, etc. But it's also true that the selection has expanded in recent years to include a huge variety of makers across the range of price points. Relative to the steel string market, I feel like there are more brands offering similar quality instruments, making it tough to differentiate. So potential buyers have a lot of options. AGF is skewed toward the steel string market, and it seems like a few classical brands get more name recognition (e.g., Cordoba) even though there are others in the same price range of equal or better quality/sound/etc. But with a smaller base of forum participants who play classical (compared, for example, to a niche classical forum like delcamp), there aren't as many personal experiences with the broader variety of brands and builders. I think this makes it harder to sell a classical guitar that doesn't have the name recognition here.

Having said that, the classical market as a whole is a buyer's market right now. Things are moving slowly all around, for prices that are often well below what you see in the used market for steel strings (in terms of percentage of new price). Not sure if fewer people are interested in classical these days, if the market is just too saturated with choices, ???
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:58 AM
mercy mercy is offline
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"fewer people are interested in classical these days, the market is just too saturated with choices"
I think this is the correct answer in general. Specifically for the forum its a steel string forum primarily.
I used to play classical but the treble string just didnt do it for me, though I love the wound strings, so maybe there are others that have switched.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:10 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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1. Much smaller marker than for steel-string.

2. This is not where I'd post a decent nylon guitar: Delcamp is the place to do that.

3. In my experience, nylon players are far more conservative than steel-string players, and are much more reluctant to buy without playing first (or letting their teacher do so haha); that rules out a ton of trade, especially internationally.

4. As always, price. I see a lot of high end nylon guitars priced very unreasonably. Private sellers often seem to benchmark against (overinflated) dealer prices rather than the luthier price. Why pay 5K used when I can order direct from the luthier themselves for 4K. In the last couple of months I've seen used guitars from Philip Woodfield, Christoper Dean and Kevin Aram all priced used for far more than the luthiers direct price. Sure, you have to wait but it's difficult to stomach coughing up more for a used guitar that was not built to your specs but for someone else.

Cheers,
Steve
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:11 PM
Red_Label Red_Label is offline
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The used electric and amplifier market isn't setting the world on fire either. I buy/sell/trade a lot of nice gear of all types and it's been a buyer's market for years. I used to think it was a stagnant/unsure economy... but I've come to realize that much like the Harley Davidson market, it's more about being saturated and the fact that the baby-boomers who've always wanted nice toys and finally were able to afford them... have retired and are buying less of it, if not outright downsizing. And many/most of the millenials coming up have little interest in learning to play guitar and making it a lifelong hobby.

The digital age has brought with it a new set of problems for many industries. The winds of change are blowing fast, and I hate to imagine where the markets will go from here. There will always be players... but the numbers have peaked IMO... and considering the glut of great gear out there... there may be hard times for manufacturers. I'm sure there will be posters who take issue with my observations, but i've been doing this for 35 years and have seen a lot of change. I also have a good friend who's been running successful music stores for 40 years and has seen the same changes and has the same fears. This guy is passionate about gear and i've never seen anyone as talented at guitar gear sales than he is, so he knows what he is talking about. I believe that we have reached, or are reaching "peak guitar". He doesn't disagree. Gibson is a great example. Yes, they've been run poorly. But the years of being able to coast on your brand name alone are coming to a close. You'd better build a superior product at a great price. The consumers are far too educated and have far too many choices for a brand to mail it in any longer.

Last edited by Red_Label; 08-19-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:50 PM
rodmbds rodmbds is offline
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I can see the previous points could make sense as I believe most members at this forum are from the USA. I'm from Brazil, and that is definitely not true considering our market here.

Just for curiosity, but here the "acoustic guitar" is called "violão" and that means a nylon string instrument most of times. When you want to be specific about a steel string you actually use the word "steel" to define it, "violão de aço". Hope it made sense

Funny enough, the electric guitar is called "guitarra" so it may be confusing when a foreign person comes to a store and asks for a "guitar" and is offered electrics only.

I've read that most manufacturers here in Brazil closed or are importing from China standard guitars with their logo on it. Instruments made here you can only get from luthiers or buying used. Currently there's only one called Rozini which comes from the remains of two traditonal Brazilian manufacturers Giannini and Del Vecchio.

Yes, guitar manufacturers here come from Italian immigrants, so you get these names, including Di Giorgio.

I've also read that a guitarist (can't remember who) came here to Brazil and wanted to bring an instrument from the trip. He/she was offered to buy (and bought) a Giannini nylon string but was later disappointed when found out the guitars were actually made in China.

My main guitar (it's my main guitar because it's the only one left... recession times around here) is a Brazilian made Giannini from 1991, a student model. And though there's not supposed to be anything great about it like fine woods and solid top, none of which mine has, you can see a certain level of craftsmanship and characteristics like a d shape neck, wooden rosette and ornaments at the bridge. But when comparing to the Giannini student models nowadays, gosh, looks like somebody threw paint over a wooden box and put six strings on it.

The other day I saw one at a supermarket I usually go to (yes... a supermarket selling guitars....) and one of them had the headstock broken....... from just being there, the thing snapped and cracked at the nut.

Anyway, I'm getting carried away and off topic. Still, what I believe is that the classical / nylon string market is just fine as usual considering people's preferences. Most popular music here is played on nylon strings, including country music, much before Willie Nelson and Trigger

In fact, South America in general is mostly classical / nylon guitar oriented. It's also possible to see a large preference for nylon in Europe, at least I was amazed when I visited France and saw an outstanding number of options of nylon guitars to choose from.

I'd never ever pay for a used guitar the same amount of cash I'd pay for a custom luthier made guitar.

I also feel that some people get a nylon guitar hoping to hear a steel string one. I've always thought they were just guitars and could be interchangeable without much difference. Over the years found out they are different beasts, not only in sound but also in playability, body and hand posture, technique and etc.
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