When something goes wrong at a gig and no one says anything....

[lodi_55]

Volume levels between instrument + vocals is fairly easy to set, but a little tougher to maintain during a gig for many of the reasons stated.

I've nicely told musicians that guitar or vocals should come up or down. If you frame it nicely, you'll usually get a favorable response.

[menhir]

I just tried make sure I was zipped up before I bounced up on stage.

[ManyMartinMan]

Interesting how many people herein think they are at the mercy of the sound person. Are you not listening to your mix? I listen to my mix in my monitors which come to me exactly like the house speakers. Even in a large venue, I stop during sound check or give the sound people in the back hand signals on how to correct my mix. I decide on my sound check where my mix is going to be. I rely on the sound person to adjust the EQ and overall volume for the room since I can't hear what the "room" hears from the riser/stage - however- my vocal/guitar mix is exactly where I say it will be. If it's a big enough solo show, I bring my long-time friend and sound man with me. Otherwise we set up a couple of days prior to the show and he EQ's my set up for that show.

That said, I've known many performers with a sore throat or weak vocals to bury the vocal mic into the instruments just enough to hide their weakness.

[pieterh]

I don’t consider myself a hack but am a working sound tech first and a semi-pro musician second.

The best sound checks and concerts are always with professional musicians who understand the conditions in any given venue and the needs of their band mates. They have a respect for the technicians and crew who are there to help them do a good concert. The ones who are there to have a hifi sound on stage at the expense of all else are going to have a tough time giving their audience a good time.

That said, I’m willing to get constructive criticism from the band and even audience members but I draw the line at “isn’t it too loud?” and “shouldn’t the (given instrument) be louder?”. We have strict guidelines regarding volume and although we don’t always measure sound levels I do it often enough when I think we may be in the risk zone. In my experience sound level can be very subjective and those with sensitive hearing are likely to complain before we are anywhere near 97dB leqt (the guideline for a mixed age group audience). To get a good balance and keep levels down out front can be tricky if you have an enthusiastic drummer or a lively trumpet section. I did a show a few weeks ago where I took the trumpet section out of the PA for one song and it was barely noticeable - but it was still loud!

I will under extreme conditions talk to the sound person if there is a serious issue, but it has to be needed. I had to point out that the vocal mics were way too loud at a very well known duo’s concert a few years ago. He had the mixer way back in the auditorium under the balcony, a position I know can be a trap for all sorts of frequencies usually resulting in the vocals getting lost. Using an iPad for remote control can be invaluable as it means you can check the balance from anywhere in the auditorium. Fortunately for me the sound guy knew what I was talking about and the second act was more comfortable! I think he may have been having an off day because for the first two songs we heard percussion acoustically from the stage and it suddenly popped into the mix half way though the third number. I guess he had it on a mute group and had forgotten about it until then...

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

Interesting how many people herein think they are at the mercy of the sound person. Are you not listening to your mix? I listen to my mix in my monitors which come to me exactly like the house speakers. Even in a large venue, I stop during sound check or give the sound people in the back hand signals on how to correct my mix. I decide on my sound check where my mix is going to be. I rely on the sound person to adjust the EQ and overall volume for the room since I can't hear what the "room" hears from the riser/stage - however- my vocal/guitar mix is exactly where I say it will be..

True enough - as long as one does not lose track of the fact that what you hear in the monitors is not necessarily what the audience should be hearing, your needs are different. Also, as the venue fills up, adjustments may need to be made to the mix. I have noticed many performers are insistent upon what they are hearing in the monitors but very few presume to tell the sound man what he (and the audience) should be hearing. As an audience member, if something is obviously wrong, I do not hesitate to tell the sound man, discretely and politely, what I have noticed. Often they are grateful for the feedback.(not a pun)

[ripdotcom]

I doubt the audience minded. They arent playing for musicians and the group of drunk barflies probably didnt even notice.

[J Patrick]

.. gonna sound off on one issue that is often overlooked in live sound discussions....

.....with very few exceptions...(state of the art concert halls and small listening rooms come to mind)...it’s pretty much impossible to engineer a mix that sounds the same at every spot in the venue...as we all know every room is different and some are just plain crazy hard to get great sound in...tablets have made it easier to move around and adjust the mix from different locations but there are still compromises to be made...

.....additionally...house systems can be woefully inadequate and incapable of providing good sound to every seat in the house...for this reason, at general admission shows I will often try to grab a seat in the general area of the sound desk..and i will sometimes skip concerts and shows at venues where I know the sound is gonna be bad....

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

IMO, if you have to say anything, say it to the soundperson.

Often, the band IS the sound person.

I've learned which people appreciate me commenting on their sound (balance/et) and which ones don't.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by HHP

I notice this stuff, take it into account, but my policy would be not to mention it to the performer or group. If someone mentioned it to me, my initial reaction would be something like "If you know so much about it, what are you doing in the audience and I'm on the stage?"

Running sound and performing are two different things, entirely.

Some of the local singer/songwriters around here trust my ears enough to appreciate me commenting on their sound.

[slimey]

Sound guy can make or break a gig for you.
I hate gigs where you're forced to use the venues sound guy. Always a battle.
I have seen sound guys make opening acts sound poor on more than one occasion.

[SongwriterFan]

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

...I saw a very famous and much beloved American "kinda country" singer with an outstanding band play there, and she had an opening act of another perfectly good female "kinda country" singer whose sound was, frankly, unlistenable. (we left our box to get away from it).

It was so bad and the main act was so good that one couldn't help but wonder if the difference might have been deliberate.

That couldn't ever happen could it?

Originally Posted by archerscreek

That is hilariously deviant and probably was deliberately done.

Originally Posted by slimey

Sound guy can make or break a gig for you...I have seen sound guys make opening acts sound poor on more than one occasion.

- sometimes at the behest of a council president with a major personal agenda, as happened on our last CCM/P&W gig...

Originally Posted by Jengstrom

...This is one of several reasons I no longer play guitar in church...

End of story - we now return you to your regularly-scheduled program...

[J Patrick]

..as long as this thread keeps going i’m gonna keep chiming in...a couple more things from the sound techs point of view...

..not all voices are equal...some voices can drive a microphone mightily...a big rich baritone like Greg Brown has is a joy to mix...there’s a lot there to work with..light, delicate voices that may be beautiful but just don’t send much signal through a mic are much trickier to get out in front of the instruments....much easier to deal with in a studio than live...

...i’d also like to point out that providing great sound for musicians always brings out the best performances and is very rewarding....it is often appreciated by players and listeners alike

..from a players perspective...I am mainly a player and have been at the mercy of many a sound tech...always treat them well...know what you want and how to ask for it...try not to put yourself in bad sound situations....when you take the stage make the very best of what you end up getting...don’t take it too hard when the sound is bad...it happens to everyone...

[raduray]

Having been brought up on classical music, my first rock concert was the Grateful Dead at the Yale Bowl. Early on Jeffy Garcia apologized for the lack of volume, explaining that some of their equipment had been damaged in transit. I, on the other hand, found the volume to be perfect, loud but not deafening

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Often, the band IS the sound person.

I've learned which people appreciate me commenting on their sound (balance/et) and which ones don't.

This

Back in the day when I would visit other bands in the clubs around town I'd mention a tweak if needed. I never tried to revamp their mix. Often if anyone had a sound man it was a friend that wanted to be with the band and hang out. Real sound men are difficult to find. But everyone thinks they are an expert and know how to do it.