Lightfoot's Sundown, how the heck he playing this?

[LiveMusic]

Check this rendition...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSmv38nClGo

How is he playing this? I assume guitar is tuned E to e but not sure if he is using an alt tuning? I assume not. Capo is on 2? He is fretting at fret 2 and he barely moves his fingers to make the chords except when he goes to D-shape.

I guess it's key of F#? Chorus...

F# - F# - C# - F#
F# - B - E - F#

With capo at 2, chord shapes can be...

E - E - B7 - E
E - A - D - E

But I don't understand what shapes he is using. His index finger doesn't even move on the E to B7.

Anyone know what he's doing? Such as describing it as like this if he were using 'cowboy chords.' This would be first line if he were using cowboy chords. (He doesn't appear to be doing that, this below is offered only as an example of how we could communicate about what he is doing with his fretting hand.)

022100 - 022100 - x21202 - 022100

EDIT: ONE MORE TIME, I am not saying he is using the above; the above is typical cowboy chord shapes. I am using this method of describing chords (XXXXXX numbers) so that people can respond with what they think he is doing!

I am always somewhat amazed or intrigued when I see artists play chord progressions that veer from cowboy chords shapes like we all learned on. Like, how did he come up with that? I note that these progressions seem to have to do with economy of motion. If you play a song a million times, I guess the less movement, the less stress on the hand.

This is the best live rendition I have seen of this song, it's just awesome. This rhythm guitar overall sound and strumming pattern is just fantastic to lay the base for that song.

Do you find the action of his hand to be 'unusual?' I'd like to know what he's doing!

[Nymuso]

Looks like you've unlocked the shapes. He's going for, and obviously achieved, a droning sound in the trebles; the E has no third. How do you find this stuff? You first learn the rules - then you break them. Just experiment until it sounds like what you want.

[fitness1]

Actually I think it's:

022400 and 024200 - just hold the bar in the traditional A major position and move the pinky from the G to the D string. If you just drop the pinky down to the A string (4th fret or C#) , it makes for a nice "droning" sounding A chord to match the others.

This progression/chord shape comes up a lot in many songs. Fun to play around with.

[LiveMusic]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Actually I think it's:

022400 and 024200 - just hold the bar in the traditional A major position and move the pinky from the G to the D string. If you just drop the pinky down to the A string (4th fret or C#) , it makes for a nice "droning" sounding A chord to match the others.

This progression/chord shape comes up a lot in many songs. Fun to play around with.

Thanks for that, after I messed around a bit, this helped. But your comment 'traditional A major position' threw me, but it got me a start. Seems to me it could be...

The verse chords (relative to the capo position, not the actual chord)...

022400 (the A and D strings, the "2's" in 022400 would be barred with the index finger and the "4" is with the pinky on G string, 4th fret)

024200 (move pinky to the D string)

The chorus chords...

022400 (same as above)

002400 (this is the 'A' chord, we've gone from E chord to A chord, just move index finger to the D string)

xx0232 (a typical 'D' chord)

022400 (back to first chord, the 'E' chord)

He is using a 12-string guitar, so, it could be that he figured that a lot of ringing is going on and he doesn't need cowboy chord shapes. Or else there is a droning sound... will have to listen closer. (EDIT: Yes, I see that he appears to be strumming all the strings... gonna have to experiment more on this!)

I tell ya, this is another example of something really simple and it makes a huge difference... I see this from time to time with big artists... guitar chords that are not cowboy chords and it sure makes a difference... talent that separates them from the rest of us.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by LiveMusic

But your comment 'traditional A major position' threw me, but it got me a start. Seems to me it could be...

The verse chords (relative to the capo position, not the actual chord)...

.

Correct....

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by LiveMusic

024200 (move pinky to the D string)

I think the 6th is muted, making B7(add4): x24200

Originally Posted by LiveMusic

002400 (this is the 'A' chord, we've gone from E chord to A chord, just move index finger to the D string)

I think this is Aadd9 rather than Asus2. (0)-0-2-4-2-0. I.e., just moving index as you say, but barring 2nd string too.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I think the 6th is muted, making B7(add4): x24200
I think this is Aadd9 rather than Asus2. (0)-0-2-4-2-0. I.e., just moving index as you say, but barring 2nd string too.

Yes - muted 6th. I don't write things out like this hardly ever....just play it

[Earl49]

They are essentially electric guitar power chords - roots and fifths with no third. I could dig out the sheet music book (!) and look them up, but that is my recollection. I play this song with cowboy chords, not having had much success with the true shapes that he uses. But that is me and my left hand.

And he uses a capo at fret #2 for most songs. When I saw him play last year, he mentioned during stage banter that they are in concert pitch these days, so tuned D-d with capo 2.

[Blueser100]

I love this song and grew up with it. I found this You Tube lesson pretty much shows you how. Indeed, it's an E5 to a B. Nice lesson . . . he shows how Lightfoot sometimes strums an E7 also.

https://youtu.be/yseo2iYLLbQ

[LiveMusic]

Bingo, you guys are good.

[Guitarbarian]

Okay, first off, you guys blow my mind. I'm just starting my acoustic guitar/music journey so much of what y'all are saying is total Greek to me--for now, at least.

Second, I've always loved Gordon Lightfoot, even though by the time I found out about him in my teens his popularity in mainstream music had waned. "Sundown" is one of my favorite songs, and I hope to eventually be able to play it.

I don't have a trained musician's ear, but it seems to me that in that YouTube video, they're playing the song at a faster tempo than the version I'm more familiar with.

Anyway, interesting thread, even if I don't understand much of the music theory part. Yet.

Cheers!

[Blueser100]

Originally Posted by Guitarbarian

Okay, first off, you guys blow my mind. I'm just starting my acoustic guitar/music journey so much of what y'all are saying is total Greek to me--for now, at least.

Second, I've always loved Gordon Lightfoot, even though by the time I found out about him in my teens his popularity in mainstream music had waned. "Sundown" is one of my favorite songs, and I hope to eventually be able to play it.

I don't have a trained musician's ear, but it seems to me that in that YouTube video, they're playing the song at a faster tempo than the version I'm more familiar with.

Anyway, interesting thread, even if I don't understand much of the music theory part. Yet.

Cheers!

I love trying to figure out stuff like this and to help others if I can. Don’t worry too much that the lesson is faster than the record or even if yes beyond your ability for now. Your curiosity and inspiration to learn it will help keep you motivated.

What you can do is try to get the chord progression down from the video and keep working at it. Once you get it under your belt a bit more, practice the chord progression while away from the video, eg in front of tv. You could try to play along with the song itself if you have it. Have fun!

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Blueser100

I love this song and grew up with it. I found this You Tube lesson pretty much shows you how. Indeed, it's an E5 to a B. Nice lesson . . . he shows how Lightfoot sometimes strums an E7 also.

https://youtu.be/yseo2iYLLbQ

I did a cover of "Sundown" not too long ago using the same approach, outlined above. I used my 12-string on it, as shown below:



It took a little practice, but it's possible with a little work. I hope this might be helpful...

- Glenn

[LiveMusic]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I did a cover of "Sundown" not too long ago using the same approach, outlined above. I used my 12-string on it, as shown below:



It took a little practice, but it's possible with a little work. I hope this might be helpful...

- Glenn

Glenn, how awesome! How apropos! Isn't it amazing that I started this thread and you had already figured out the very thing! LOL! (The only difference probably is you fret your A-shape chord versus his, but I guess it's the same chord.) Cool!

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by LiveMusic

The chorus chords...

022400 (same as above)

002400 (this is the 'A' chord, we've gone from E chord to A chord, just move index finger to the D string)

xx0232 (a typical 'D' chord)

022400 (back to first chord, the 'E' chord)

Almost ... the second is actually a full A shape that he bars with index finger (e.g. at 1:23). I tend to play this with an ukulele which makes it much easier, and I can still sing it well at 1.5 notes higher.