One Tube Combo to Rule Them All?

[joebloggs]

I encourage you to watch this video, and then choose. It will surprise you. But for my money, and I own a Blues Cube Artist, which is amazing and will never be sold....If I were to choose one amp to rule them all.....Hands down it would be one word....FRIEDMAN

https://youtu.be/86yJqZq5uPc

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

Another great option, and review. I noticed some of the ones on reverb have little equalizers on the panel where yours says "Express," while others do not. One seller said: "There is some background noise which is common with this model amp." Is that your understanding of these amps? One seller is interested in trading for a Princeton Reverb! I wonder why that would be, given the more limited range (without pedals) of the PR?

The Express Plus was the next development of the Express and had the graphic EQ like the Mark Series. The use most people have for the graphic is to add a "smiley face" EQ or "Hollywood Curve." The "Contour" on the first edition did just that with one knob but had less control and I don't think as many people understood it.

With regards to hiss, you have to understand what this amp is doing. You have four levels of gain available, brought on by how many "sides" or preamp tubes the signal is going through. As I understand it, channel 1 has your choice of two or four gain stages, channel two has your choice of three or five gain stages. Thermionic devices (valves, tubes) aren't the quietest circuits in the world. I found that if you kept it to three stages there isn't much hiss. If you wind out the ultimate stage you can expect a little hiss, but I still haven't experienced so much as to keep the amp from being useful in the studio. But you have to realize you are dealing with the kind of gain available in a Dual Rectifier!

In some ways I feel like the Express is a little hard to understand for anyone who didn't come up in the '60s or early '70s and have to learn on low and medium-gain amps. Back then is was normal to only get maybe two or three tame gain stages in an amp and without a master volume you didn't hear the gain at bedroom levels because to get that gain you had to raise the roof. Now we have a fully-developed multi-stage amp in a tiny enclosure that, thanks to master volume, can be played really quietly. I think perhaps the problem might be that all that gain is available too easily for people to appreciate.

Bob

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by joebloggs

I encourage you to watch this video, and then choose. It will surprise you. But for my money, and I own a Blues Cube Artist, which is amazing and will never be sold....If I were to choose one amp to rule them all.....Hands down it would be one word....FRIEDMAN

https://youtu.be/86yJqZq5uPc

It's work for me to wade through Andertons' vids, but I managed. I liked the BC and Milkman equally for clean, but felt the BC handled that particular pedal better than the Milkman. The BC did sound good, so it's on the list (though I've got s/s amps already and they sound "mostly pretty good not completely dissimilar while remaining firmly beyond my experience level").

The Fender was surprisingly bad overall, the MB was good, but to me less good than the BC or Milkman clean. The vox was good clean, but what happened with that pedal? Yikes.

I also checked out the ones that were mentioned, but not there (Morgan PR12 and Victory V40 Deluxe). I wasn't moved by the Victory which was more expensive, but that Morgan sounded good, while not necessarily better than the BC.

Interesting info! Which Friedman amp is your preferred?

[Paleolith54]

I had the original Express 5:25 (with the 10" speaker) and have an Express 5:25 Plus (in addition to the 5:50 Plus I mentioned in my earlier post). The hiss was pretty bad at bedroom levels on the original 5:25 Chanel 2, "Burn" mode. Mesa seems to have eliminated that. My Plus model has no noticeable hiss, whether at gig or bedroom volumes. None.

Just FYI, as folks tend not to distinguish between the different generations of the Express amps, but there are a lot of differences (quieter, improved clean channel, graphic EQ, footswitchable volume boost, etc.)

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

I had the original Express 5:25 (with the 10" speaker) and have an Express 5:25 Plus (in addition to the 5:50 Plus I mentioned in my earlier post). The hiss was pretty bad at bedroom levels on the original 5:25 Chanel 2, "Burn" mode. Mesa seems to have eliminated that. My Plus model has no noticeable hiss, whether at gig or bedroom volumes. None.

Just FYI, as folks tend not to distinguish between the different generations of the Express amps, but there are a lot of differences (quieter, improved clean channel, graphic EQ, footswitchable volume boost, etc.)

Whew! I was running out of variables to consider! Thanks for the clarifying info.

I've spent part of today learning to re-love my olde tyme Vox Pathfinder 15R. Very decent sound with single coils and HBs.

[StevenL]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Another reasonable option is the Mesa Engineering Express 5:25. This little EL84-based amp has two modes: 5 watt single-ended Class A triode and 25 watt push-pull. There are two foot-switchable channels that each offer a selection of two voices: Clean and crunch on channel 1 and blues and burn on channel 2. The secret here is that the amp's clean sounds in channel 1 run in the range of Fender and the drive sounds in channel 2 favor the Marshall end of things. They are no longer built but are a recent model so NOS and mint examples are available on Reverb. More in my review, HERE.

Bob

I have loved my Express 5:25. Beautiful cleans and distortion. I tried a Fulltone overdrive with it and tossed it. The built-in overdrive was WAY better. Put a ceramic Webber Blue Pup speaker in mine and paired it with an old 1X12 Marshall cabinet with an alnico Blue Dog. Huge sound even at lower volumes with no ear fatigue. Paired with my old Yamaha 6X10 it holds its own with anybody I've played with. Just a great, natural, fat, 'organic' sound. I've got some NOS tubes in it also, including a Mullard AT? lower gain in the first gain stage. I can't recommend the Express highly enough. Not really all that expensive either.

[The Kid!]

They make nice amps, but a 5W tube amp to rule them all??

Did they bring Candid Camera back into syndication?

[ChrisN]

After jonesing for an entre' into Tube Town, querying here and elsewhere, watching, high-quality headphoned through hi-fi, 30,000 vids of the various recommended amps, looking for pricing and opinions, upsides/downsides, regrets versus heat-of-the-moments versus fads-of-the-day, keeping in mind my relative inexperience/skill level, and a host of way too many variables, I decided to start on the lowest rung of the ladder that still sounded like a tube amp, and which met my reduced-power needs.

I wanted 5 or fewer watts, preferably with an attenuator to get below 1 watt. I wanted Genuine Tube Tone on cleans-to-slightly-dirty (with good solid cleans that weren't too dirty to start), without too much concern for distortion up top (can't have it all, until you get much further up the food chain), would prefer a 12" speaker for the depth, and really wanted front panel controls. Oh, and it had to be cheap to get past the wife's sniper-eye. The universe of such amps is small.

Steve's always recommended the Bugera V5, but I had reservations. Reliability being one, way too dark w/HBs being another, 8" speaker didn't thrill me with its sonic presence, and most of the vids I checked out didn't flatter the tone. Plus, why does every amp tester assume every viewer wants to play speed/death/thrash metal on every amp (especially in the Bugera's price range)?

Still, many folks, even smooth jazz folks, liked the V5, which counts for something, and Steve said some of the shortcomings could be managed with minor upgrades (and to buy "new"). I managed to find a comparo vid that showed the V5's tone in a better light, even with the 8" speaker. My research into tube upgrades confirmed mixed results, but that most obtained a brighter presence (less dark tone) by shifting to a Tung Sol 12AX7 and a JJ EL84 in place of the originals (which many said they liked). Speaker upgrades provided mixed results, with lots of equivocal info. To me, the cabinet size was the unavoidable elephant in that tiny room - just can't get Big Sound from it due to physics. I found at least two people who spoke well of the Bugera 12" cab and Turbosound speaker for use with the V5.

With that background in hand, today I ordered a new V5 from guitar center via a 16% coupon that saved me $32 (but buying from GC exposed me to $15 in sales tax to offset that gift), I then went to the Tube Depot and ordered the referenced upgrade tubes ($48 w/shipping), after which I stopped at Reverb and ordered the only Bugera 12" cab available (used, but "excellent") for a not unreasonable $90 (+ $25 shipping) (they're $160 new on Amazon), and finally topped things off with a factory V5 cover sold at musician's friend for $10. So, I'm at $366, all in, on this baby. If it doesn't work out, I won't have lost too much, and it may well be all I need or want, for a while. With the closed back 12" cab, I'll live with the original 8" speaker, for now, especially as some said they liked it fine - perhaps, with the Tung Sol 12AX7, I will, too.

Some may say (not so much here, as on lesser boards) that $366 could have bought me a much more awesome amp, I'm a fool, etc., but I'm satisfied I looked at this from every angle. Thanks for the help. I didn't intend to actually get an amp now, I just wanted to know some basic direction as set out in my OP. It's dangerous to dip a toe in here!

EDIT: While I appreciate the Bugera's headphone jack, the sound quality from it, even into good 'phones, is not very good. Probably because there's no easy to pull a headphone jack from a tube amp?? I don't know, but it's strictly "so you can hear yourself practice quietly" quality. Doesn't bother me, but I wanted to mention it.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The Express Plus was the next development of the Express and had the graphic EQ like the Mark Series. The use most people have for the graphic is to add a "smiley face" EQ or "Hollywood Curve." The "Contour" on the first edition did just that with one knob but had less control and I don't think as many people understood it.

With regards to hiss, you have to understand what this amp is doing. You have four levels of gain available, brought on by how many "sides" or preamp tubes the signal is going through. As I understand it, channel 1 has your choice of two or four gain stages, channel two has your choice of three or five gain stages. Thermionic devices (valves, tubes) aren't the quietest circuits in the world. I found that if you kept it to three stages there isn't much hiss. If you wind out the ultimate stage you can expect a little hiss, but I still haven't experienced so much as to keep the amp from being useful in the studio. But you have to realize you are dealing with the kind of gain available in a Dual Rectifier!

In some ways I feel like the Express is a little hard to understand for anyone who didn't come up in the '60s or early '70s and have to learn on low and medium-gain amps. Back then is was normal to only get maybe two or three tame gain stages in an amp and without a master volume you didn't hear the gain at bedroom levels because to get that gain you had to raise the roof. Now we have a fully-developed multi-stage amp in a tiny enclosure that, thanks to master volume, can be played really quietly. I think perhaps the problem might be that all that gain is available too easily for people to appreciate.

Bob

I think I understand - it's the same problem with the Fender Supersonic 22 that I also like - multiple gain stages and something to do with "the preamp design". Like the MB Express, the Fender SS's crunch/burn channel sounds perfect without a pedal (but it takes some volume to get you there). Also like the MB, the cleans are good, too, with the SS's modeled on the '65 Deluxe. Very hissy, though.

I'm definitely keeping the MB on my list for down the road. It looks like it can do it all, reliably. It's just way beyond where I am today, so it's an aspirational amp. I'm just glad to know it's out there to shoot for.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by joebloggs

I encourage you to watch this video, and then choose. It will surprise you. But for my money, and I own a Blues Cube Artist, which is amazing and will never be sold....If I were to choose one amp to rule them all.....Hands down it would be one word....FRIEDMAN

I've heard good things about Blues Cube and they sound great. If the Bugera experiment doesn't work, I would consider either the Stage or Artist. Are there years/versions to avoid? Years/versions that are better?

[ChrisN]

Well, Guitar Center managed to get the Bugera to my house within 24 hrs of my online order. I like it. The tubes rattle at greater gain/volume, but that's not surprising given their location. I'll give Eurodampers a try.

Very good smooth/warm tone with single coil / p90, OK-to-good/great with mini-hb, but full HB is not great with the Epi Alnico Classic Pro (which I haven't liked with my s/s amps, either) - very dark/flat sounding. However, Gibson MHS HBs sound great at the tone/volumes I prefer (not sure they're designed for lots of distorted work, with their alnico II mags).

Anyway, the B5 sounds just like I'd hoped it would - great. Oh, and it is NOT too dark for higher quality HBs (or at least alnico II HBs), as I had those with the Tone at the 11 oclock mark and the tone was perfect - very clear with lots of room to move (guitar tone knob was in the middle).

Anyway, a success, and I'm not sure the new tubes will be much of an improvement for the use I anticipate.

Thanks to all for the input - it was very helpful (yes, especially Steve's persistence on the Bugera).

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

Well, Guitar Center managed to get the Bugera to my house within 24 hrs of my online order. I like it. The tubes rattle at greater gain/volume, but that's not surprising given their location. I'll give Eurodampers a try.

Very good smooth/warm tone with single coil/p90, OK-to-good/great with mini-hb, but full HB is not great with the Epi Alnico Classic Pro (which I haven't liked with my s/s amps, either) - very dark/flat sounding. However, Gibson MHS HBs sound great at the tone/volumes I prefer (not sure they're designed for lots of distorted work, with their alnico II mags).

Anyway, the V5 sounds just like I'd hoped it would - great. Oh, and it is NOT too dark for higher quality HBs (or at least alnico II HBs), as I had those with the Tone at the 11 o'clock mark and the tone was perfect - very clear with lots of room to move (guitar tone knob was in the middle).

Anyway, a success, and I'm not sure the new tubes will be much of an improvement for the use I anticipate.

Thanks to all for the input - it was very helpful (yes, especially Steve's persistence on the Bugera).

Thanks, Chris, and I'm glad you found out for yourself that the V5 is everything I said it is (and more, once you really start playing with it a little) - however, I'll be the first to tell you the $1.29 POS factory tubes are the weak link; frankly, I'd go ahead and change them before investing in a set of Eurodampers - there's a fair possibility one or both tubes may have been damaged in transit (those guys aren't too careful with packages at this time of the year, especially if it's a rush delivery like yours), if that's the case the dampers wouldn't be of much help and, if you think your amp sounds good now, more than a few satisfied fellow Bugera owners here on the AGF will be happy to tell you what a difference a set of high-quality glassware will make...

Use it well, often and (not too) LOUD...

[billyboy1962]

Has anyone checked out the Lazy J amps? My word! They cost about £1,000,000 each but are absolutely stunning

[jimidrake]

I've owned Fender/Marshall/Randall/Vox/Boogie/Roland and a Trace Elliott. I just purchased a "Swiss Army Knife" of an amp in the Blackstar HT Club 40. The clean channel has a voice switch that alternates between A style and A/B style and the Overdrive channel has a shaping knob that dials between British and American styles. I can get every tone from the Vox/Marshall to the Fender/Boogie types and a blend of both as well as a great reverb that emulates plate and other styles. All for $369 from Proaudiostar on Reverb. I've gotten several of my friends, including Richie Scarlett(Ace Frehley's Comet/Alice Cooper) playing them. EL34's and ECC83's(12AX7's) and a Celestion 12" speaker. Best bang for the buck and most versatile amp I've ever owned besides the Trace modeling amp.

[billyboy1962]

Lots of love for the Blackstar HT 40. I’ve had mine for four years and am always impressed when I use it. I did replace the stock Celestion 70/80 and put in an Egnater Elite 80...marvellous