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  #16  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:22 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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I go about this from the bass instead of the melody as a vocal accompaniment style. Then I work out the melody or a guitar solo break section. I also have a handful of solo guitar pieces where I play the melody, the bass line, and everything in between.

I use drop-D a la Mundell Lowe or Johnny Smith in order to get a little more pitch range between the melodies and bass lines.

I’m sort of a “one trick pony” on guitar. I do this one style and that’s it. I seem to impress people at my own gigs, but I wouldn’t be relevant in a band context.

It sounds like this:

https://youtu.be/bnY_-jnjIDo
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:28 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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...or this:

https://youtu.be/AlrbOKtaul8
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:41 AM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
You know, it is a funny thing: I love melody. I'm an absolute sucker for good melody and harmony. I love a well-articulated melody that makes a guitar sound like a human voice or another instrument entirely.

So I guess it is no big surprise that this style isn't my favorite. I always feel like the melody is being subordinated to the chord progression. I fully appreciate the complexity of both chordal performance and composition that I hear in this style, but in this practice the melody just seems to be a line to hang all those intermediate chords upon. I seem to work exactly backwards to this - when I blend melody and chording, I always seem to want to naturally subordinate the chordal structure to the melody, and to the articulation of that melody including vibrato, bending, and pre-bending. Whenever I create a combined choral melody style delivery I'm always thinking to myself, "Wow, I could do that melody far more justice if I played it as a separate line."

I hope you'll forgive me for this aside in the thread. I've always wanted to see someone else work things my way but I realize that my approach is incredibly tough to manage - even for me!

Does anyone else hear things backwards like I do?

Bob
I've always wanted the chords to serve the melody as well. Of course, you can vary the amount of chord per note etc., but beyond that, there are some basic techniques that help as well.

If you learn to play each melody-chord by picking the melody note first and then the rest of the chord after, you develop an articulation technique which facilitates basically playing melodies which can always land in a chord. Maintains a lot of rhythmic freedom in melody playing and keeps things improvised more.

Most of us are probably pretty good with picking the bass note first for any chord. This is the same thing but with melody. Sort of like Carter style, but with melody in the upper octave. Anyway, if you practice that the "busy way", the end result is that you can play melody the way you WANT and fill in chords before or after as you like.

Jeff has a VERY free melodic style this way and it's largely improvised, but you don't have to actually be a monster player to learn this at a basic level. It's just an articulation pattern we don't develop as much usually.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:47 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpl man View Post
Bob,
Watch the first video in the thread, posted by JonPR.
I did, and felt more comfortable with his approach than the typical approach with a jazz player I hear turning everything into a "standard." I still get that nagging feeling that I'd prefer the piece to be done with two players splitting the chores.


Bob
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:50 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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I came to guitar from a piano background and so I try to do a lot of voice leading on the bass and inner voices rather than go from block chord to block chord. Martin Taylor is a master of voice leading on guitar but he just hints at that in the video a few posts back.
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  #21  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:53 PM
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I've also found that if you know the chords to a song, more often than not the melody note is in there anyway. You just have to feature it, then the melody notes lead to the next "featured" note in the next chord.

..if that makes sense. I'm not a hard core jazz player by a long shot but this approach is a good starting point for me.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:38 AM
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First off, I've always enjoyed this "style" of playing - if you call it that.
Secondly, you guys are way beyond my knowledge skills in this area. I'm reading your posts and have a vague idea of what you're saying but that's about it.
So...........in order to start down this road and begin to learn to play this style, where in the heck would I begin?
I can play ok - mainly fingerstyle (I would rate myself as a solid intermediate).
I'd love to incorporate some of this into my regimen.
Any suggestions?
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2018, 06:59 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Chords and tunes.

You want to know all the 4 string drop 2 and 3 voicing for maj7, m7, 7, and m7b5 chords at a minimum, you'll also probably want to know your 6, m6, 6/9 and definitely altreed dominants. Should be able to find these with a simple Google search, if not, PM me.

Apply everything to tunes. Do not wait to start learning songs. Songs move in very predictable ways, and often what one song teache's you will be applied in 10 others...
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  #24  
Old 08-09-2018, 09:28 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I did, and felt more comfortable with his approach than the typical approach with a jazz player I hear turning everything into a "standard." I still get that nagging feeling that I'd prefer the piece to be done with two players splitting the chores.


Bob


My perspective is that if I practice it up by myself, I still can (and do) play with other people when they are available. I also really like playing with instruments other than guitar. When a piano player solos, he can comp his own chords. This lets him trade of solos with a saxophone or jazz even though there is no-one comping chords during his solo. I try to do the same on guitar. Yes it is fun to do single note solos with a pianist or another guitarist, but it is also nice to have more flexibility with other instruments.
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  #25  
Old 08-09-2018, 05:04 PM
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This is my typical style when rendering instrumentals from published songs. While I never play them the same way twice, they're usually reasonable facsimiles of the original artist's work. I do try to respect them for the most part while exercising some artistic license.

This is B.Taupin's - E. John's Yellow Brick Road (short instrumental) and like this piece, all of the pieces I render from published songs are chord melody.

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  #26  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:33 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
You need a ridiculous knowledge of both chords and melody to do this. Its something piano players can do alot easier. Its a high level skill, mostly in knowing 100s of chords!
I'd state it differently:

You don't need to know "hundreds of chords", just a few dozen. What you NEED to know is the basic triads in major and minor, variations such as the 7th, 6th, augmented, flat 5 and such and diminished...of which there are only three. The chord names change from key to key, but the basic structures are constant. You will end up expanding your fingerings by using inversions, but this is easy enough when you understand the basic building blocks behind the names/symbols.

Building an arrangement on melody and using triads and or expanded triads is not difficult. Clearing your mind, building patience and learning what to listen for is the task.

Good luck.
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:36 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
This is my typical style when rendering instrumentals from published songs. While I never play them the same way twice, they're usually reasonable facsimiles of the original artist's work. I do try to respect them for the most part while exercising some artistic license.

This is B.Taupin's - E. John's Yellow Brick Road (short instrumental) and like this piece, all of the pieces I render from published songs are chord melody.


Very pleasant. Do you have an arrangement of "Stardust"?
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Very pleasant. Do you have an arrangement of "Stardust"?
Thanks,

Hoagy Carmichael's Stardust?
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2018, 08:09 PM
jazzalta2 jazzalta2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
You know, it is a funny thing: I love melody. I'm an absolute sucker for good melody and harmony. I love a well-articulated melody that makes a guitar sound like a human voice or another instrument entirely.

So I guess it is no big surprise that this style isn't my favorite. I always feel like the melody is being subordinated to the chord progression. I fully appreciate the complexity of both chordal performance and composition that I hear in this style, but in this practice the melody just seems to be a line to hang all those intermediate chords upon. I seem to work exactly backwards to this - when I blend melody and chording, I always seem to want to naturally subordinate the chordal structure to the melody, and to the articulation of that melody including vibrato, bending, and pre-bending. Whenever I create a combined choral melody style delivery I'm always thinking to myself, "Wow, I could do that melody far more justice if I played it as a separate line."

I hope you'll forgive me for this aside in the thread. I've always wanted to see someone else work things my way but I realize that my approach is incredibly tough to manage - even for me!

Does anyone else hear things backwards like I do?

Bob
Bob Womack, a traditional rendering of a solo fingerstyle guitar piece generally presents a recognizable melody, followed by a number of improvised choruses, ending up with a playing of the melody again. I follow that formula pretty exclusively, and I always hope it's accessible and relate-able to my listeners.
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:37 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
You know, it is a funny thing: I love melody. I'm an absolute sucker for good melody and harmony. I love a well-articulated melody that makes a guitar sound like a human voice or another instrument entirely.

So I guess it is no big surprise that this style isn't my favorite. I always feel like the melody is being subordinated to the chord progression. I fully appreciate the complexity of both chordal performance and composition that I hear in this style, but in this practice the melody just seems to be a line to hang all those intermediate chords upon. I seem to work exactly backwards to this - when I blend melody and chording, I always seem to want to naturally subordinate the chordal structure to the melody, and to the articulation of that melody including vibrato, bending, and pre-bending. Whenever I create a combined choral melody style delivery I'm always thinking to myself, "Wow, I could do that melody far more justice if I played it as a separate line."

I hope you'll forgive me for this aside in the thread. I've always wanted to see someone else work things my way but I realize that my approach is incredibly tough to manage - even for me!

Does anyone else hear things backwards like I do?

Bob
Bob...

Not to pick nits, but the style is absolutely valid despite the tendency of some (many, actually) towards gratuitous changes/progressions and simply over-play.
Ted Green was amazing, but I tire of the eventual homogenization ensuing from a single-minded quest such as his. So I would tend to fault the player rather than the style or approach.

I agree that when it becomes about the "style" rather than the uniqueness of the melody that it's run off the rails. Personally, I divide it more as tri-line melody guitar rather than chord melody.

1. Melody line

2. Bass line

3. Interior/harmony/counter line.

I'll add a fourth note for color/shading, but it's triads for me, sort of "Mickey Baker Minus One". As always, love your input and insight.

W
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