What do you think about a "Critique Corner"?

[TheGITM]

One of the reasons I will post in S&T is to just drop something that maybe someone else can look at and decide they want to learn to play... I've actually heard something there and it inspired me to go learn something new... so it's kind of a pay-it-forward thing.

Whether I do it 'well' or not isn't terribly important to me any longer. I don't worry about mistakes, or if my voice isn't all there. I just love to play/sing/whatever. If someone can enjoy it, or learn from it, that's great. If they ignore it, that's okay, too.

And my inspiration seems to come in waves... I may not post anything for months, then get inspired and post 3 or 4 things in a single day.

I've never been a writer, though. It kinda bugs me that I lack that creative spark to create something from scratch that's my own. I had a brother (RIP) that wrote well over 100 songs in his life, many of them quite good. I just didn't get that... thing... whatever it is... that seem to compel some to create. I'm just a player. It is what it is.

I agree that there might be value to having something that is for charter members only. That might be a little more interesting.

[reeve21]

Hi Barry,

Thank you for the topic.

I think I might be more inclined to post if S and T was restricted to charter members. For a long time I tried to listen to everything and comment, and then it fell off to just listening and commenting occasionally. Recently I’ve not had time to even keep up with that, and I’m reluctant to post anything if I’ve not been engaged for a while. As you say, there is now a whole lot of content to try to keep up with. But I know some of the feed back and encouragement I have received there has been very helpful on my journey as a “bedroom” player.

I think there is a reluctance to be critical in a public forum. Most comments tend to be “that’s great” and many times it is, but I know I’ve put up some cringeworthy stuff! I’m not sure how to address that, maybe solicit critical comments by private message?

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. S and T has been one of my favorite areas, but I agree that changes should be considered.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

I’m not sure the AGF is the best place for a critique sub forum. The issue I see is the potential for unwarranted comment and bruised egos that may be the result. Criticism is a good thing when you know and trust the source but an open forum invites input from literally anybody. Sure, some folks are astute enough to evaluate the merit of the critique but others may not be. Opening oneself up is difficult for some players and while they don’t have to post anything the desire for validation might provide the motivation.

I’ve seen too many players pin their self worth on the opinions of others and I know there can be negative consequences when criticism is offered in a non safe environment which is something that can’t be guaranteed here.

It’s a better idea I think to maybe find a few trusted folks to form a private group to share songs and critiques. Just my .02

This^^^ is my concern, too. I think that deep down, most of us don't want criticism and it is really easy to cause harm when a person criticizes another.

For myself, I am highly reluctant to criticize another person's efforts. I really think we are each doing the best that we can with our efforts. I often offer positive comments in S&T because I would rather offer encouragement.

I may have offered some constructive criticism over the years in S&T when asked -- I'm reminded of Foxo's comments above -- but I have tried to make those criticisms as encouraging as possible.

I do agree with Barry that many people are posting in S&T now who never seem to offer any encouragement to others. They seem to be posting their music and not taking part in any other way.

After reading the comments above I feel that I should apologize to others here that my S&T entries often do (though not always) tend to generate a fair number of comments and feedback, which I have genuinely appreciated. But I suppose that may have been at the expense of others' threads. It was never my intention to run anybody over. When I started posting in S&T in 2016 after I stopped being a moderator and had time to do it, I was genuinely trying to reinvigorate the Show & Tell sub-section. For a while, I think that worked.

However, now the S&T section seems to have exploded with posters looking for views and offering essentially nothing back to others on the AGF. I suppose the negative side of requiring that S&T posters to be Charter Members is that probably will reduce participation on the forum. It seems we need more people and fewer bots on the AGF as it is.

I have been wondering lately if I should stop posting my covers on the AGF for just some of the above reasons.

- Glenn

[foxo]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

This^^^ is my concern, too. I think that deep down, most of us don't want criticism and it is really easy to cause harm when a person criticizes another.

For myself, I am highly reluctant to criticize another person's efforts. I really think we are each doing the best that we can with our efforts. I often offer positive comments in S&T because I would rather offer encouragement.

I may have offered some constructive criticism over the years in S&T when asked -- I'm reminded of Foxo's comments above -- but I have tried to make those criticisms as encouraging as possible.

I do agree with Barry that many people are posting in S&T now who never seem to offer any encouragement to others. They seem to be posting their music and not taking part in any other way.

After reading the comments above I feel that I should apologize to others here that my S&T entries often do (though not always) tend to generate a fair number of comments and feedback, which I have genuinely appreciated. But I suppose that may have been at the expense of others' threads. It was never my intention to run anybody over. When I started posting in S&T in 2016 after I stopped being a moderator and had time to do it, I was genuinely trying to reinvigorate the Show & Tell sub-section. For a while, I think that worked.

However, now the S&T section seems to have exploded with posters looking for views and offering essentially nothing back to others on the AGF. I suppose the negative side of requiring that S&T posters to be Charter Members is that probably will reduce participation on the forum. It seems we need more people and fewer bots on the AGF as it is.

I have been wondering lately if I should stop posting my covers on the AGF for just some of the above reasons.

- Glenn

Please don’t feel forced to apologise Glenn. I think you’re a great addition to Show and Tell and deserve all the positive feedback you get. You also take time to listen to and encourage others. I’d be very sad if you felt you needed to stop posting in Show and Tell.

[TheGITM]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

...

I have been wondering lately if I should stop posting my covers on the AGF for just some of the above reasons.

- Glenn

Glenn, you do wonderful work and it's appreciated by many... your production quality is outstanding, and I think it helps other see what's possible, should they wish to put in the time...

My vote is for you to keep playing, producing, and posting!

Edit: And also, thanks for all of the positive comments. You are one of the few the regularly looks at posts and cares enough to comment

[reeve21]

Glenn, if there are any problems with S and T, you are not among them

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

This^^^ is my concern, too. I think that deep down, most of us don't want criticism and it is really easy to cause harm when a person criticizes another.

For myself, I am highly reluctant to criticize another person's efforts. I really think we are each doing the best that we can with our efforts. I often offer positive comments in S&T because I would rather offer encouragement.

I may have offered some constructive criticism over the years in S&T when asked -- I'm reminded of Foxo's comments above -- but I have tried to make those criticisms as encouraging as possible.

I do agree with Barry that many people are posting in S&T now who never seem to offer any encouragement to others. They seem to be posting their music and not taking part in any other way.

After reading the comments above I feel that I should apologize to others here that my S&T entries often do (though not always) tend to generate a fair number of comments and feedback, which I have genuinely appreciated. But I suppose that may have been at the expense of others' threads. It was never my intention to run anybody over. When I started posting in S&T in 2016 after I stopped being a moderator and had time to do it, I was genuinely trying to reinvigorate the Show & Tell sub-section. For a while, I think that worked.

However, now the S&T section seems to have exploded with posters looking for views and offering essentially nothing back to others on the AGF. I suppose the negative side of requiring that S&T posters to be Charter Members is that probably will reduce participation on the forum. It seems we need more people and fewer bots on the AGF as it is.

I have been wondering lately if I should stop posting my covers on the AGF for just some of the above reasons.

- Glenn

Glenn, you of all people should not apologize for your music posts in S&T. You are essentially the foundation of the AGF membership contributing to all areas of the forum and your videos entertain everyone who views them.

As far as criticism, having a separate sub forum just for that purpose I think be ok, but only in the area of playing guitar. When I think of a sub forum for criticism regarding guitar playing (not vocals), I think of things like too much string noise, tempo varies too much, not enough legato, timing is off, too much pausing, etc. Things that help improve the performer. I'm not talking about a forum to discuss whether they think an original tunes/song is "good" or someone's vocals. "Strings Critique" would be a name for the subforum for example. Our greatest common denominator is playing the guitar, not singing, so that's why I'm excluding vocals from the sub forum area suggestion.

We can all play the guitar, but not all of us can sing. So the subject of the constructive comments would be restricted to guitar playing only. When you get to the area of vocals I think it's a different animal and more complex.

[jseth]

For me, one of the biggest issues (and also one that is a Saving Grace for this entire Forum) is that #1 rule: Be Nice!

That rule has prevented me from just "going off" on someone, or being hyper-opinionated about a topic... that is generally a very good thing, I'm thinking.

The interwebs is full of places where folks can post whatever opinions they have, and do so anonymously. It is truly a breath of fresh air to have a Forum where folks don't get to do that - myself, included!

A lot of my own feelings about various pieces of music is more along the lines of, "I don't know Art, but I know what I like"... as such, I'm not sure that any criticism I would give would be either useful or instructive. Writing songs is a very personal thing for me, and I have long ago realized that what other folks think of my songs is really none of my business!

I would have been far better off had I truly felt this way as a younger man, in almost every endeavor!

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by foxo

Please don’t feel forced to apologise Glenn. I think you’re a great addition to Show and Tell and deserve all the positive feedback you get. You also take time to listen to and encourage others. I’d be very sad if you felt you needed to stop posting in Show and Tell.

This. ^^^

I'm part of the problem with Show and Tell, I think. While I try to venture there periodically to listen and comment, I admit to participating there more frequently when I have something of my own to share. I do like that section and what others (besides myself) have to contribute, so I'll do better.

[FrankHudson]

A general reply, somewhat prompted by two things GlenWillow said upthread.

Good feedback, honest, specific, drill-down, feedback that's not just "that was great" -- or even "that's terrible" takes a lot of work. I've had decades of doing that in the context of poetry workshopping. Frankly, I'd often think when I got done that I was too detailed, too specific, and then I'd think: who am I (other than one reader, or in our case here, one listener) to say what works, what doesn't, and what might work better? I honestly don't know that I ever helped anyone in decades of doing it.

As to GlennWillow's worry: No, I don't think you're displacing other shared performances. In general, I think more posting leads to more posting. You keep your song curation interesting, and you play and sing so well.

[Mr. Jelly]

I would not have anything to do with it. I will not be a cheerleader. If that's what you want, perform for your SO. I am a terrible audience. I look at music as art and I am aware it is business. I find it hard to be analytical combining both of these aspects. One or the other I can deal with.

[edcmat-l1]

I vote for a grill corner. Every forum needs a grill/cook section. It'll give everyone a place to show off their culinary skills.

[BillyH]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I have been wondering lately if I should stop posting my covers on the AGF for just some of the above reasons.

- Glenn

NOPE!!!!!!

[Jaxon]

..........

[fitness1]

Only if the woman from Foxo's thread is the moderator.