Mic recommendation for live group vocals

[guitarwebguy]

The group I play with has been talking about how best to showcase our music which often has 3 or 4 part harmony along with various instruments so we started talking about mic choices and large diaphragm condenser mics came up. I’d really appreciate input as to choices based upon what you are using or have used in the past, we’d like to stay under $800 (sure we’d all like a Neumann or two .....) pros and cons. Along with that there are times that we’d like to go purely acoustic so a a subset of this question would be what large diaphragm mic would work well with a bass, mandolin, and 2 guitars, or is there one that would handle both?

Thanks!

[GmanJeff]

The Neumann KMS 105 is a fine hand-held condenser for vocals and is under $800, but different mics suit different voices differently, so each singer should find the mic which works best for them. I use the KMS 105 for solo or duo acoustic gigs in relatively quiet environments. When more instruments are added to the stage, where more gain before feedback is required, or the environment is noisy, I use a dynamic mic instead.

If you're speaking of using a single mic for all voices, that's a bad idea. You won't be able to set gain or volume individually for each signal, can't EQ each voice individually, and won't be able to add processing which might be beneficial on one voice but not on another. The same considerations apply if you attempt to use a single mic to amplify multiple instruments.

Instruments are better amplified by on-board electronics or by instrument-specific mics. In the real world, as opposed to in music videos, LDCs intended for studio use will in most environments likely give you significant feedback problems on stage, whether used for vocals or for instruments. And, unless each instrument is kept a consistent distance from each mic, each instrument's volume will change with every change in the instrument's position.

[capefisherman]

Ear Trumpet!!!!! I use two and they are fantastic, not only sound great for both voice and instruments but have excellent feedback rejection. If they are good enough for the Tiny Desk Concerts and Jerry Douglas and his group, they're good enough for me!

[bobbyg67]

how do you specifically use the ear trumpet? what is your set up and what venues do you play?

[gfirob]

+1 on the Ear Trumpet mikes (I have an Edwina). I play mostly as a solo with different guitars. Feedback is an issue with any condenser mike especially using a monitor, so I have the various guitars going through a Tonedexter so I can sing close to the mike when playing alone.

These mikes sound great and of course they look great too.

It is a favorite group mike though and when I have worked with it that way we do away with the monitor and it does fine. Feedback is an issue with any condenser mike and as condenser mikes go the Edwina is pretty feedback resistant but not feedback proof.

[Murphy Slaw]

The Shure KSM44 gets a lot of love in the Bluegrass circles.

As does the AKG414.

Bumping out of your range a tad...

[archerscreek]

I have and have used a Blue Baby Bottle SL live before. It seems to be a hot mic and has great off axis rejection and gain before feedback. I bought it as a poor man's replacement of an ETL mic. However, the shockmount is bad on these things. It works regarding blocking the bouncing that happens on the floor from coming up into the mic, but the design won't lock the mic angle in place very securely. I returned the first one to the store and called Blue CS and got replacement parts for the second one. Must be a flawed design because I can still tilt the angle no matter how tight I get the lockdown screw. If I had to do it again, I'd spring for an ETL. The ETL mics look like a more convenient carry as well.

I think condenser mics are underutilized. I'd bet in a lot of situations they would sound great and feedback wouldn't be an issue once properly set up and dialed in. The problem is artists have to treat these mics like separate instruments rather than plug and play pickup jacks. One needs to practice, play, and experiment with the mic and know it intimately before going live. Tiny tweaks in positioning in relation to sound and reflection sources can make a big difference in feedback rejection.

A condenser would be great for giving a slight boost in volume to an appreciative audience. It'd be great on an open stage where loud sounds reflecting off back walls wouldn't be an issue. It'd be great for times when you have a lot of time to setup and space to shift things around.

[gfirob]

"It'd be great for times when you have a lot of time to setup and space to shift things around."

Well that's the rub, for me anyway. I never seem to have enough time to set up and there always seem to be other issues sucking my time away from the very thing you are talking about. I agree with you though and I use my Edwina every time I can.

[gfa]

Another +1 for ETL. Pic is Josephine at a winery gig today.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by gfirob

+1 on the Ear Trumpet mikes (I have an Edwina).

The Edwina seems to be pretty popular for multiple singers.

[Methos1979]

We were considering an Edwina but worry that because we often use the Bose S1 behind us as the FOH, that would negate the feedback resistance they claim. If anyone can refute this, please do.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by gfa

Another +1 for ETL. Pic is Josephine at a winery gig today.

Gotta love those Ear Trumpet mic designs! I got an Edwina Stereo Pair that takes me back to the 1930s whenever I use them.

[guitarwebguy]

Oh wow, I was actually thinking about ETL mics, for those who have used them live do you have any thoughts on Josephine, Louise, Myrtle, or Delphina?

[gfirob]

They have different uses and different characteristics. The website tells all:

http://www.eartrumpetlabs.com/microphones/

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by guitarwebguy

The group I play with has been talking about how best to showcase our music which often has 3 or 4 part harmony along with various instruments so we started talking about mic choices and large diaphragm condenser mics came up.
Thanks!

Hi gwg

I've worked with bluegrass groups both on/off stage (in studio and on stage) with large diaphragm mics (AT-4050, AKG 414, Shure KSM-44 primarily) in single mic configurations. If the mains are at least 15 feet away from them side-to-side and at least 15 feet in front of them, they do well. Of course there are no stage monitors with this arrangement, but it is a pretty quiet stage, and the groups tend to sound really nice in the house.

Cheap mics feed back no matter what you do with them, and they sound very trebly/strident compared to the more expensive choices.

The modern/younger groups all have pickups installed in their instruments, and sometimes supplement the sound of them live (and trust the house techs to get the mix right).

Big Name groups often use 3-5 vocal condenser mics, with individual small diaphragm mics on the mando, banjo, fiddle and guitar. They want/need higher sound pressure levels in larger venues where stage space may not allow a wider and deeper stage position.

If the audience is polite (and quiet), and engaged, condensers are wonderful. If they or the PA are anemic, or the audience is conversing, you aren't going to like it when the audience start checking out their FaceBook and Instagram accounts while you play.

I'm old 'Rock' school, and we've always used multiple SM-58s (or something similar) which are solid sounding, easy to set up, and indestructible road mics.