Schatten HFN (New Design)

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Every pickup needs some EQ help to sound its best. I should've said that when I hooked them both up to the Fishman amp I left the EQ flat. Even after tweaking both of these pickups the clarity and note separation on the Schatten is far superior to the anthem to my ears. The only edge I would give the anthem is it has more bottom end on it's own compared to the Schatten without a preamp. I'm not trying to sell it by no means but my impression of it so far with only a couple hours of playing time is very high. If anything changes I will let you know, crossing my fingers as I haven't been having much luck with pickup systems lately but I think I found my winner.

be

Here's hoping that the Schatten HFN will indeed be the answer to your pickup needs. Thanks for keeping us updated on your experiments.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by philjs

AND it's Canadian-made!

Phil

As a former citizen from Ottawa, that's one of the appealing things I found about the Schatten HFN! I recently bought a new Rickard Maple Ridge Dobson 5-String Banjo that is of top-quality craftsmanship and an excellent value. For Americans, with the current $1.00 USD = $1.36 CAD, buying Canadian is getting Canadian-made, equal to best in the world quality at Chinese prices, and that's hard to beat!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

be

Here's hoping that the Schatten HFN will indeed be the answer to your pickup needs. Thanks for keeping us updated on your experiments.

I'm convinced that a Schatten HFN Artist, like I had, is among the best pickups available as long as it's installed so that all three feet of the pickup base make and remain in contact on an equal footing with the adhesive/bridgeplate interface. The nice thing about one-, two- and three-transducer systems is that each transducer is independent of the other so no potential mounting issues are there like in a one-plane base system such as the HFN.

The HFN should work if proper sanding of the feet, per Schatten HFN instructions, enable each foot to make and remain in good contact with the adhesive/bridgeplate interface. This could be accomplished by applying machinist's dye or some other liquid to the three feet of the Schatten HFN and pressing it very lightly against a bare brideplate so the dye transfers to it, and then with a mirror viewing the resultant contact prints to see if all the feet are touching the bridgeplate. Sanding of one or more feet should render all three feet making good contact. Then again, does the bridgeplate remain as flat under string tension as it was when doing the dye-print contact when there were was no string tension? Also, after pickup fitting and sanding was accomplished, removal of the dye or other print medium would be prudent to ensure the adhesive sticks when actually installing the HFN.

[GuitarLuva]

After reading all the posts here I must say that I too am a very curious person that just has to know things for myself and now I'm curious about the putty. I was initially not going to try it after reading Doug Young's post about it in another thread but I think I may give it a try later on when I get time just so I can say that I did. As of right now I prefer the loctite 495 over the tape, it's similar tonewise just hotter output with the loctite. Who knows, maybe I will prefer the putty sound better....only one way to really know for sure right!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

After reading all the posts here I must say that I too am a very curious person that just has to know things for myself and now I'm curious about the putty. I was initially not going to try it after reading Doug Young's post about it in another thread but I think I may give it a try later on when I get time just so I can say that I did. As of right now I prefer the loctite 495 over the tape, it's similar tonewise just hotter output with the loctite. Who knows, maybe I will prefer the putty sound better....only one way to really know for sure right!

I found the tape didn't produce good results for me but, as I've mentioned, I suspect the three feet weren't contacting the tape/bridgeplate interface with equal pressure. I regret not bothering to sand the feet to make equal contact before returning the system to Schatten. Being that the Loctite is easily removed, why not experiment with the putty and maybe other mounting media but I'd save supergluing, if that may be on the agenda, for last as it gets into the bridgeplate and stays there.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I found the tape didn't produce good results for me but, as I've mentioned, I suspect the three feet weren't contacting the tape/bridgeplate interface with equal pressure. I regret not bothering to sand the feet to make equal contact before returning the system to Schatten. Being that the Loctite is easily removed, why not experiment with the putty and maybe other mounting media but I'd save supergluing, if that may be on the agenda, for last as it gets into the bridgeplate and stays there.

Yeah I will experiment with the putty but superglue is not on the menu for me it's just too messy.

[GuitarLuva]

Okay guys here I am again with another update! I'm nearly lost for words at the moment as I just tried the putty install and my only expectations were to be cleaning up some putty within a few minutes. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The instructions say to take some putty about the size of a pea and place it on each leg. I chose to ball it up about the size of a BB (you know from a BB gun) and flatten it onto each leg and proceeded to reinstall the pickup again. The putty gave a way more balanced tone, like literally night and day difference from the tape and loctite, and the biggest shock of all, hotter output. I'm still thinking how the hell is this possible. Yesterday I was a happy camper and now today I am just blown away. I love my loctite 495 but the putty is absolutely staying. I have no more reasons to mess with this pickup anymore. I again did an A/B with my Gibson equipped Anthem SL plugged into the Fishman Loudbox Artist Amp, with the EQ flat, I also laid my cell phone near the amp with my sound meter app open, and both pickup outputs were now the same level. We all know the Anthem needs some serious EQ help, the Schatten however could be used as is (this was with no preamp as well). As far as I'm concerned the Schatten completely destroyed the Anthem tonally. The only benefit of the Anthem would be feedback resistance. Keep in mind that all guitars respond differently with different pickup systems. I was looking for a pickup that doesn't impact the unplugged tone of my guitar, was passive, sounded good on it's own, easy to install/remove and worked well with Tonedexter and I have found it!

I thank all of you in this thread mentioning different mounting materials giving a different tone. I can't speak for the older Schatten HFN with the rosewood base but this newer version with the ABS base coupled with the putty is going to be my "go to" pickup, at least until something else comes along that peaks my interest.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Okay guys here I am again with another update! I'm nearly lost for words at the moment as I just tried the putty install and my only expectations were to be cleaning up some putty within a few minutes. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The instructions say to take some putty about the size of a pea and place it on each leg. I chose to ball it up about the size of a BB (you know from a BB gun) and flatten it onto each leg and proceeded to reinstall the pickup again. The putty gave a way more balanced tone, like literally night and day difference from the tape and loctite, and the biggest shock of all, hotter output. I'm still thinking how the hell is this possible. Yesterday I was a happy camper and now today I am just blown away. I love my loctite 495 but the putty is absolutely staying. I have no more reasons to mess with this pickup anymore. I again did an A/B with my Gibson equipped Anthem SL plugged into the Fishman Loudbox Artist Amp, with the EQ flat, I also laid my cell phone near the amp with my sound meter app open, and both pickup outputs were now the same level. We all know the Anthem needs some serious EQ help, the Schatten however could be used as is (this was with no preamp as well). As far as I'm concerned the Schatten completely destroyed the Anthem tonally. The only benefit of the Anthem would be feedback resistance. Keep in mind that all guitars respond differently with different pickup systems. I was looking for a pickup that doesn't impact the unplugged tone of my guitar, was passive, sounded good on it's own, easy to install/remove and worked well with Tonedexter and I have found it!

I thank all of you in this thread mentioning different mounting materials giving a different tone. I can't speak for the older Schatten HFN with the rosewood base but this newer version with the ABS base coupled with the putty is going to be my "go to" pickup, at least until something else comes along that peaks my interest.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

You've just started a run on Schatten HFN systems!

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year To You & Your Loved Ones!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Okay guys here I am again with another update! I'm nearly lost for words at the moment as I just tried the putty install and my only expectations were to be cleaning up some putty within a few minutes. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The instructions say to take some putty about the size of a pea and place it on each leg. I chose to ball it up about the size of a BB (you know from a BB gun) and flatten it onto each leg and proceeded to reinstall the pickup again. The putty gave a way more balanced tone, like literally night and day difference from the tape and loctite, and the biggest shock of all, hotter output. I'm still thinking how the hell is this possible. Yesterday I was a happy camper and now today I am just blown away. I love my loctite 495 but the putty is absolutely staying. I have no more reasons to mess with this pickup anymore. I again did an A/B with my Gibson equipped Anthem SL plugged into the Fishman Loudbox Artist Amp, with the EQ flat, I also laid my cell phone near the amp with my sound meter app open, and both pickup outputs were now the same level. We all know the Anthem needs some serious EQ help, the Schatten however could be used as is (this was with no preamp as well). As far as I'm concerned the Schatten completely destroyed the Anthem tonally. The only benefit of the Anthem would be feedback resistance. Keep in mind that all guitars respond differently with different pickup systems. I was looking for a pickup that doesn't impact the unplugged tone of my guitar, was passive, sounded good on it's own, easy to install/remove and worked well with Tonedexter and I have found it!

I thank all of you in this thread mentioning different mounting materials giving a different tone. I can't speak for the older Schatten HFN with the rosewood base but this newer version with the ABS base coupled with the putty is going to be my "go to" pickup, at least until something else comes along that peaks my interest.

Wishing you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

That was my finding as well. When I first installed the HFN, I literally did so in about five minutes as an experiment to see how it would sound with the putty. I was blown away by the natural, fat and warm tone. I haven’t been that impressed with a pickup ever. Just a dead simple installation that sounded fantastic. I do still want to try positioning it a bit better since it was a super quick test but I am pretty sold on the HFN. Part of me wants to get the newer abs version and possibly even go active but I am not sure yet.

Gary, my apologies that this thread made its way to you. To be honest, I only mentioned the amulet and putty experiment as I like to try new things. I think the amulet is a great pickup, I just personally like the simplicity and tone of the schatten pickups. I think too that there’s something appealing about a pickup that I know I can consistently install and get good results.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I do still want to try positioning it a bit better since it was a super quick test but I am pretty sold on the HFN. Part of me wants to get the newer abs version and possibly even go active but I am not sure yet.

I was able to grab a hold of it, with gentle pressure, and reposition it.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I was able to grab a hold of it, with gentle pressure, and reposition it.

The neat thing about the putty is that it never truly hardens. It sticks the pickup in place and won’t move it but fine adjustments can be made even a few weeks later. Another big benefit!

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The neat thing about the putty is that it never truly hardens. It sticks the pickup in place and won’t move it but fine adjustments can be made even a few weeks later. Another big benefit!

Absolutely! I must say I'm super impressed with the putty and I really have to admit I never thought different materials would have that much of an impact on the tone of a pickup but it sure does. As you said it's really amazing how natural it makes the pickup sound compared to the tape and in my case the glue. It sounds so much like a mic'd guitar without even fiddling with EQ or effects I'm so glad that I ended up trying it out or I would've been cheating myself.

I'm quite happy with the passive version but by all means try the active version. After my past experiences I just really wanted the least amount of components inside my guitar. Please let me know if you end up going for the active version.

[SpruceTop]

I had the full-blown Schatten HFN Artist with Volume and Tone controls (an active system with onboard battery). The nice thing about this system is its stereo jack that would enable a player to solder-in another pickup or microphone to the jack thus having a dual-source system if that would be a preference.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I had the full-blown Schatten HFN Artist with Volume and Tone controls (an active system with onboard battery). The nice thing about this system is its stereo jack that would enable a player to solder-in another pickup or microphone to the jack thus having a dual-source system if that would be a preference.

I thought they also had a system that was active but instead of having a battery inside your guitar it was powered by phantom power. That sounded appealing as well, unless I was misinformed.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I thought they also had a system that was active but instead of having a battery inside your guitar it was powered by phantom power. That sounded appealing as well, unless I was misinformed.

Yes, the Artist II has phantom power capabilities. I vaguely recall when he introduced that at NAMM

. https://www.schattendesign.com/artist_preamp.htm

BTW, an Artist II system plus volume control is currently on ebay for $70 ($50 plus $20 shipping). Somebody please buy it before curiosity gets the best of me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schatten-HF.../223289760081?