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  #31  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:49 PM
paulzoom paulzoom is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Ok that is your opinion
Didn't we already go through this in the other thread ?

Ok perhaps with so with Yamaha but of course that is irrelevant, because Yamaha is not Breedlove, nore vise versa . That notion is falling into a typical "association fallacy" type argument



"Suffer" is a vague and ambiguous term. And is only your opinion. I have one Breedlove Masterclass and it does not seem to suffer at all. I guess I am at a loss to understand why someone would think their perception is automatically a general one.

And in point of fact the company can and is a Lexus and Toyota at the same The analogy is hilarious given that the Lexus division of Toyota is the largest "premium" vehicle produces in Japan
I agree with you. If they keep the names separate (like toyota/lexus) I don't see how it will hurt the brand.
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:53 PM
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I agree with you. If they keep the names separate (like toyota/lexus) I don't see how it will hurt the brand.
I think it makes no difference, Breedlove or PRS or Fender or Gretsch or Taylor or Martin, et. al. do not "suffer" from having the same name on the imports...
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:54 PM
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If I correctly recall the original announcement from Dana Bourgeois, it stated that Dana and crew are going to keep building Bourgeois guitars in Maine. Whatever else happens with Eastman isn't going to change that. I see no reason why the Bourgeois brand will suffer.

Perhaps a closer analogy would be Bashkin when he launched the Avian line that was built overseas. I think Avian is gone now, but I don't recall seeing any sign that it affected the "cred" of Bashkin guitars.
  #34  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:55 PM
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Been considering the purchase of a Bourgeois Om one of my favorite makers, but feeling a bit uneasy about the future resale value if I decide to part with it later. Anyone else nervous about the future value of current USA models once the market gets hit with the Chinese models? From what I have found on the subject and reading the site info these new models will carry the Bourgeois name which concerns me a bit as the current om is not cheap, way over 5k and if new ones are floating around at half that next year may be a tough sell.
All procrastination but concerning and making my decision harder, I never make money on a resell and realize depreciation is reality but makes me nervous. Maybe nothing to worry about.
It just may go in the other direction and make the ones that were built when Dana was the owner more valuable. Small shop, attention to detail, quality of woods, quality control, that would be my thinking. But if flipping the guitar is a concern than I would say you are not 100% convinced that guitar is the right guitar in the first place.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Ok that is your opinion
Didn't we already go through this in the other thread ?

Ok perhaps with so with Yamaha but of course that is irrelevant, because Yamaha is not Breedlove, nore vise versa . That notion is falling into a typical "association fallacy" type argument



"Suffer" is a vague and ambiguous term. (have Breedloves sales of US made guitars gone down ?) And "suffer" is only your opinion. I have one Breedlove Masterclass and it does not seem to suffer at all. I guess I am at a loss to understand why someone would think their perception is automatically a general one.

And in point of fact the company can and is a Lexus and Toyota at the same . The analogy is pretty funny given that the Lexus division of Toyota is the largest selling "premium" vehicle produced in Japan

Never mind.
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  #36  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:34 PM
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Consider buying a used and excellent condition Bourgeoise instead? Ride someone else's depreciation and see how you like it enough to buy new later after you watch th market. If you treat it well, you can probably be even or down just a few hundy in a year or two if you decide to sell the used one and buy a new one.
This. As with many of these fabulous builders, they're not always good at the business side. The eb and flow seems to happen more often than the rest of the market. I've owned some absolutely wonderful acoustics by some of these luthiers, including Bourgeoise, and aside from the AGF community, they can be downright near impossible to sell - let alone get what you have into them.
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  #37  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Ok that is your opinion
Didn't we already go through this in the other thread ?

Ok perhaps with so with Yamaha but of course that is irrelevant, because Yamaha is not Breedlove, nore vise versa . That notion is falling into a typical "association fallacy" type argument



"Suffer" is a vague and ambiguous term. (have Breedloves sales of US made guitars gone down ?) And "suffer" is only your opinion. I have one Breedlove Masterclass and it does not seem to suffer at all. I guess I am at a loss to understand why someone would think their perception is automatically a general one.

And in point of fact the company can and is a Lexus and Toyota at the same . The analogy is pretty funny given that the Lexus division of Toyota is the largest selling "premium" vehicle produced in Japan
Glad your like your Breedlove Master Class. Try selling that 'Lexus.' You will be lucky to get a Toyota price. That's what happens when you try to do both under one name.
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:05 PM
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And in point of fact the company can and is a Lexus and Toyota at the same . The analogy is pretty funny given that the Lexus division of Toyota is the largest selling "premium" vehicle produced in Japan
Lexus' are great cars. They are also, in most people's view (and in fact), simply somewhat fancier Toyotas. Not boutique low production cars. You are making my point for me.
  #39  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:07 PM
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Honestly I have never made a purchase based on resale value. Guitars are a really poor investment anyways.
I agree. I'm buying it for me, not for someone else to buy used.

If you like it, you should get it and not worry about what may happen maybe down the road.
  #40  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I think it makes no difference, Breedlove or PRS or Fender or Gretsch or Taylor or Martin, et. al. do not "suffer" from having the same name on the imports...
But none of those guitars are on the boutique side of the market. Again, you are making my point for me. If Bourgeois is going to fit in with those makers, it will have lost status.

Martin, IMO, is an interesting case. I think they did hurt their brand some with the imports and formica guitars, etc. But they are so established as "the" acoustic guitar maker, their brand is pretty hard to shake. And they are primarily known for their "Standard" line, which are at the high end of the middle of the market, or the lower end of the high end of the market, depending upon how you look at it. When someone says "Martin" one still thinks D-18 or D-28, not a formica import.
  #41  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hamburg325 View Post
You can't be a Lexus and Toyota at the same time. Breedlove elected to go the mass-market Toyota route, hurting the value perceptions of their "Lexus" guitars.
While I do not know the history of Breedlove guitars, I do know Lexus is consistently shown to have the best retained value of automobile brands. It doe not appear that Lexus's re-sale value is hurt by their connection to Toyota.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/...alue-cars.html

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...e-value-awards

As already noted, PRS, USA Made Electrics do not appear to be negatively impacted in the resale market by their offshore counterparts, however like others, I do not consider the re-sale value of a guitar when my ears and hands have decided on a purchase.
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  #42  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:58 PM
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I have a thought---why don't we wait and see how good the guitars turn out to be?
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  #43  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hamburg325 View Post
Glad your like your Breedlove Master Class. Try selling that 'Lexus.' You will be lucky to get a Toyota price. That's what happens when you try to do both under one name.
Except of course as I said and you have ignored, Breedlove from the very get go before going offshore, had notoriously low resale value. So your statement is a false cause association. But more importantly why would I try to sell it.
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
Lexus' are great cars. They are also, in most people's view (and in fact), simply somewhat fancier Toyotas. Not boutique low production cars. You are making my point for me.
Well arguably most people are not actually aware that Lexus is owned by Toyota but the entire analogy is ridiculous Cars are not Guitars
And there is no point to be made .
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Last edited by KevWind; 11-10-2019 at 04:47 PM.
  #45  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
But none of those guitars are on the boutique side of the market. Again, you are making my point for me. If Bourgeois is going to fit in with those makers, it will have lost status.
Again only in your perspective so in reality there is not point to made. You are still confusing your opinion as being a standard or generally held perspective it isn't. That you can't seem to understand that is confusing. And FYI most if not all of those makers actually started as "boutique" which is now (what with Build To Order options among almost all big name manufactures) is pretty much relegated to being simply a production and sales numbers term.

What ever "status" Boutique builder might have attached to it is in more in the eye of the individual beholder, even here on AGF and certainly not in the perspective of the guitar buying public at large.

Attaching this " status to be lost" automatically to moving up in production and sales numbers (which what will likely happen) is the personal view of just yourself and perhaps a few others , not a consensus perspective by any stretch of imagination as clearly evidenced in these two threads so far.
I get it you think this move will cause Bourgeois to lose "status' I do not think it will,,,,, we will simply have to agree to disagree . Belaboring the issue is fruitless
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Last edited by KevWind; 11-10-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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