Amazing what a 1/4 truss rod turn will do...

[Shades of Blue]

I have two Grand Pacifics. The 517 has always played better than the 717. I couldn't put my finger on why. The action heights were the same at the nut and at the 12th fret, yet the 717 just fought me like crazy. I'll be darned if a 1/4 turn to the 717's truss rod didn't make them identical again. I never would have thought it would have made THIS much of a difference.

[Lillis]

I’m curious which way you turned the truss rod? I’m guessing you loosened it for more relief?

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have two Grand Pacifics. The 517 has always played better than the 717. I couldn't put my finger on why. The action heights were the same at the nut and at the 12th fret, yet the 717 just fought me like crazy. I'll be darned if a 1/4 turn to the 717's truss rod didn't make them identical again. I never would have thought it would have made THIS much of a difference.

This is why the sequence of neck adjustments starts with setting neck relief, then moving to the other stuff.

[JERZEY]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

This is why the sequence of neck adjustments starts with setting neck relief, then moving to the other stuff.

Exactly! When people talk about adjusting action with the truss rod it drives me insane!

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by JERZEY

Exactly! When people talk about adjusting action with the truss rod it drives me insane!

Why? Using the truss rod to adjust neck relief is absolutely one method to help adjust the action on the neck. Even pro Guitar tech's working on touring artists concert tours use this technique all the time. It's quick, simple, and easy, and it works great...as Shades Of Blue found out.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[JERZEY]

Sure it can be used as a temp fix on the fly in a pinch to get you by. The point is its not a long term solution. I cant count how many times I see techs do this during a setup. Using relief to set action during a setup is absolutely unacceptable by any metric.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have two Grand Pacifics. The 517 has always played better than the 717. I couldn't put my finger on why. The action heights were the same at the nut and at the 12th fret, yet the 717 just fought me like crazy. I'll be darned if a 1/4 turn to the 717's truss rod didn't make them identical again. I never would have thought it would have made THIS much of a difference.

Hi ShOB

Some people will scream at the notion anyone would dare touch the truss rod. I discovered years ago that once a guitar has a proper setup, going into/coming out of winter, about an ⅛ turn in the proper directing makes a world of difference.

There are times our guitar's action will need more attention than tweaking the truss rod, but it's the most easily reversed one which leaves no residual effects once returned to a previous position.

If you over sand a saddle, it's either shim or pay for a new one, and if you over cut the nut slots, similar repercussions occur.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have two Grand Pacifics. The 517 has always played better than the 717. I couldn't put my finger on why. The action heights were the same at the nut and at the 12th fret, yet the 717 just fought me like crazy. I'll be darned if a 1/4 turn to the 717's truss rod didn't make them identical again. I never would have thought it would have made THIS much of a difference.

Your post is quite timely. I had almost the exact same experience with my new Bourgeois Aged Tone JOMT Vintage I bought in December. Dana's guitars tend to come with excessive relief according to the dealer I purchased from, and after they tightened it a bit, I then tightened it 1/2 turn further. Afterward it started to play a little stiff, despite what I measured to be a ~ 0.005" relief where I tend to like it. So I loosened it 1/4 turn and boom, now it's close to spot on and has a nice soft feel. Relief probably closer to 0.008" now.

Some guitars just prefer it differently and you have to respect that sweet spot.

[charles Tauber]

It is very simple. Too much relief in a neck makes a guitar unnecessarily more difficult to play, while offering no benefit.

If one's guitar has too much relief, it can be made easier to play by reducing the amount of relief - adjusting the truss rod. If one's guitar has too much relief, that is exactly the right thing to do and will immediately make the guitar easier to play.

If one's guitar does not have too much relief, adjusting the truss rod is not the right adjustment to make.

[martingitdave]

Ideally the relief is set first, and independent of all else. But, folks sometimes forget that relief is a big part of playing comfort, just like “action” or static height above the fretboard at a specific location. When a guitar leaves the factory, it’s usually setup to a specific criteria. Time and weather (temp and humidity) will usually alter some of the geometry from the factory environment the wood it spent its time aging and being built. Often times, all it takes to get the relief and, subsequently, the action and neck geometry back to the factory condition is a simple truss adjustment. Sometimes a new guitar can require an adjustment from the vibrations of shipping and handling or just driving it home. I’ve had it happen to me. If the guitar’s top and neck angle are not out of spec, then the truss rod adjustment is the correct measure to return a guitar to its playing condition.

[BluesBelly]

Here in Minnesota a seasonal truss rod adjustment is sometimes necessary. However it should be noted that all of my guitars are professionally set up with low action and Only one of my 10 instruments needs to be Minutely tweaked occasionally. Over the years I have had other instruments that also need a seasonal tweak.
The important thing to remember, and that has been pointed out previously on this thread, is that a truss adjustment is to be used correctly upon the initial setup and sparingly if at all after that to return it to the setup specs.

Blues

[Wade Hampton]

Charles nailed it precisely, as usual:

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

It is very simple. Too much relief in a neck makes a guitar unnecessarily more difficult to play, while offering no benefit.

If one's guitar has too much relief, it can be made easier to play by reducing the amount of relief - adjusting the truss rod. If one's guitar has too much relief, that is exactly the right thing to do and will immediately make the guitar easier to play.

If one's guitar does not have too much relief, adjusting the truss rod is not the right adjustment to make.

Exactly. I own and play a number of instruments, not just guitars, and sometimes a slight truss rod tweak one way or the other is what’s needed.

This isn’t something I do recreationally or to prove to myself or anyone else that I’m some sort of all-knowing guitar god; adjusting the truss rod even the slightest amount is something I prefer to avoid. But sometimes things shift around and either chords up the neck get harder to play or there are rattles or buzzes that weren’t there the day before. The latter can be especially noticeable when I capo at the third fret and play some first position chords.

So when I need to intervene, I do, but always very sparingly.

Among the instruments that I own and use in performance, the all-time champ for needing frequent truss rod adjustments is my Deering B6 guitar-banjo. No other instrument comes even remotely close to its neck’s endless wanderings.

It’s because of the instrument’s design - the neck is just bolted to the banjo pot, and there’s no structural support for it like the support the upper bouts give an acoustic guitar’s neck.

Anyway, provided that the guitar is given a proper set up to begin with, the occasional slight, judicious truss rod adjustment can be exactly what the guitar needs from time to time. But the two most important words in that last sentence are “slight” and “judicious,” meaning thought through and carefully implemented.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Rosewood99]

A small turn will not cause your guitar to explode and can definitely help with the action, despite what the purests say. The operative word is "small."

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Lillis

I’m curious which way you turned the truss rod? I’m guessing you loosened it for more relief?

Actually, I tightened it to reduce relief. It honestly made the action feel a mile high compared to the 517.

[Shades of Blue]

Thanks guys. I am amazed at how much difference there was in the neck relief between these two guitars. I will check the relief first from now on. The funny thing is that I was ok with the relief on the 717, but it wasn't set up like the 517 so that is why I was noticing such a huge difference.

The bad thing is that I didn't address this first, so I will need a new saddle from Taylor. It's just a hair too low now.