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  #16  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:14 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2013, 03:21 PM
SpiritShooter SpiritShooter is offline
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Repair Dude Repair Dude is offline
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Unhappy

I will just huddle over in the corner with my Rode mics
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:20 PM
Repair Dude Repair Dude is offline
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May I steal this pic ?
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:30 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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May I steal this pic ?
Sure. That's what I did, although I'd rather describe it as "borrow".

Boromir is wrong though.
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  #21  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:54 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by SpiritShooter View Post
I want this to pretty much be a one time purchase. I feel that spending additional funds now, may prevent the need to sell and purchase again in the future.

My gut tells and ears tell me to buy the Schoeps CMC641 Matched set from the start.

I really don't want to add additional work to EQ something else to get what I want. I listened them in a few Sound Pure Studio recordings and they sounded amazing to me, especially with the Pre they were using.

So the next step is selecting an interface/preamp to allow them to express their talents.
Acquiring a pair of Schoeps CMC6xx (e,g,m CMC641, CMC64, etc.) can easily be a one time, lifelong purchase. In addition, since the Colette System is modular, you can add capsules at a relative lower cost. Regardless of printed specifications and myopic statements regarding same, the sonic result with Schoeps microphones is very musical, very musical indeed.

Concerning "forgiveness of mic placement", as Fran pointed out, the hypercardioid pattern of the CMC641 mitigates the reaction of the room in which you record, which allows you to vary the mic placement more and still get a good result. In addition, that capsule has a slight bass rolloff which lowers the proximity effect, allowing closer placement if desired. Another feature of Schoeps mics adds to this. They have great off axis response (look at the polar graphs). This allows you to move the mic without (as much) worry that certain frequencies will be recorded at different amplitudes, or inconsistent amplitudes. Criticism of Schoeps mics includes claims of a slight harshness in the high frequencies which, although I agree to some extent, can be solved with mic placement and preamp choices.

You really can't go wrong with a pair of Schoeps.

Getting just one would be fine, I guess, but most folks will suggest rather strongly that solo acoustic fingerstyle guitar should be recorded with two mics, not just one. I agree.

So I would suggest a pair of mics. As listed above, there are numerous mics available at or under your original budget mark. Many compete with Schoeps quite well, and some are arguably a (subjective) better choice (e.g., Gefell).

Last edited by sdelsolray; 02-03-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2013, 08:09 PM
moon moon is offline
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My gut tells and ears tell me to buy the Schoeps CMC641 Matched set from the start.
If you're a serious about music, have a great instrument to record (looks like it...), and a good acoustic space to record in, Schoeps and Gefell should probably be on the shortlist. Here are some samples from Sdelsolray which show off some Schoeps CMC641's and Gefell 295's.

You're definitely going to have to do something about the room. As a rule, diffuse reflections in large spaces can sound good but more focussed reflections in small spaces will sound bad. You might have to make a small 12x14 room quite "dead" in order to cure its problems - but you can always add reverb in the DAW.

Lots of folk DIY some broadband absorbing panels out of Owens Corning 703, Knauf RS60 etc to hang on the walls and ceiling. They can blend right in if you choose the right fabric.
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2013, 08:49 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by moon View Post
If you're a serious about music, have a great instrument to record (looks like it...), and a good acoustic space to record in, Schoeps and Gefell should probably be on the shortlist. Here are some samples from Sdelsolray which show off some Schoeps CMC641's and Gefell 295's.

You're definitely going to have to do something about the room. As a rule, diffuse reflections in large spaces can sound good but more focussed reflections in small spaces will sound bad. You might have to make a small 12x14 room quite "dead" in order to cure its problems - but you can always add reverb in the DAW.

Lots of folk DIY some broadband absorbing panels out of Owens Corning 703, Knauf RS60 etc to hang on the walls and ceiling. They can blend right in if you choose the right fabric.
That link is broken. Apple changed things. I'll fix it.
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2013, 09:22 PM
Repair Dude Repair Dude is offline
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Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
Sure. That's what I did, although I'd rather describe it as "borrow".

Boromir is wrong though.
LOL , He may Disagree with you , I would watch that Broadsword
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:38 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Spiritshooter - +1 Schoeps CMC641's

Aloha Spiritshooter & Friends,

I've used all kinds of mic's to record the acoustic guitar since 1962. I've auditioned many hundreds of mic pairs - a serious hobby.

Although many mic's do a great job, & I have several excellent pairs, my "go-to's" are definitely the +1 Schoeps CMC6 w/ MK41 hypercardioid capsules. I have other capsules too.

I often pair my 641's (which I got from Sdelsolray last year when mine were stolen (thanks Stephen!) with a Pendulum MDP-1a tube preamp, a combo I really love. Those mic's also sound great through my A-Designs Pacifica as well as the onboard pre's of an Apogee Duet or Ensemble interface.

Sdelsolray has provided a great list of mic's you should consider or try out. But I would save a bit more & get a matched pair of 641's. For a one-time purchase, you simply cannot do better than Schoeps for mic's to record an acoustic guitar. They are among the best.

What's cool, as mentioned by Sdel, is that the Collette Series is modular. So you can swap out different capsules for different applications, miking patterns & sound qualities. great flexibility! I have the MK2 omni's, MK4 cardioids, an MK-8 ribbon & am looking at the newish MK22 wide cardioid. Schoeps is a total winner all around.

However, those magical Microtech-Gefell 295's & 296's are simply amazing sounding & the DPA 4011 is in the same neighborhood.

However, don't go thinking that you can mix these kinds of mic's with entry-level gear in the rest of your signal chain. Though great mic's like the Schoeps ARE a great place to start, you really should plan a recording signal chain that can maximize & not fight microphones of that stellar level quality. Everything in your chain should be of similar quality.

So PLAN IT FIRST.

Also, don't, like most players getting into recording, save DIY ROOM TREATMENT for last. Actually, do it first to maximize whatever signal chain you put together.

Hit the Search function to review past discussions about treatment & what it means to the quality of acoustic recordings. Here's a coupla valuable Fran Guidry links that make it clear:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

Even great hypercardioid mic's like the CMC641's hate uncontrolled early reflections in your room. Control them first! You Need ROOM TREATMENT, Spirit!

Finally, consider buying used. When you get into Schoeps mic territory, you'll find good used pairs that often are in good shape. Gearslutz Classifieds is one place to look as is Vintage King. As you move up the trough to pro level gear, many brands & models hold their resale value amazingly well, like Schoeps.

Or, just get one Schoeps to start.

Sure, you can work your way up through lesser mic's, but in the longrun, for a one-time mic investment that holds its value? It's hard to beat Schoeps mic's. At least you will never be able to blame your mic's for less than stellar recording results, right?

Good Luck, Spiritshooter!

alohachris

Last edited by alohachris; 02-03-2013 at 11:03 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:42 AM
SpiritShooter SpiritShooter is offline
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Default Incredible resource and info...

AlohaChris,

The amount of quality information received from you and everyone else has been invaluable. I can't thank you all enough.

Based on everyones input, I have placed an order for the following:

Apogee Quartet Interface
Schoeps CMC6 w/ MK41 Matched Pair w/ A20 Shock Mounts
Two AKG Low Profile Boom Mike STands

Should I decide to add a tube preamp I will make that decision a bit later.

Already working on the room with my acoustic engineer (remember I am an architect, this guy is a consultant and now it's time to call in the favors ) Once we get together and he does his magic, we will be preparing a plan of action.

What helped make up my mind is the fact that as you say, the future resale value of the CMC641's should help make the purchase viable from an economic point of view.

Also, I am using ProTools.

Thanks
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  #27  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:48 AM
Scott Whigham Scott Whigham is offline
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Originally Posted by SpiritShooter
I have listened to a few, but the comparison is so hard based upon the pre-amp etc. I hear Earthworks QTCV40's the other day and really liked them. But I don't know enough at this time to make a decision.
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I am very inexperienced with recording studio stuff other than I design then (I am an architect) from a functional and acoustic point of view. I never did the tech stuff.
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My gut tells and ears tell me to buy the Schoeps CMC641 Matched set from the start.
I'll add my $0.02 worth of ranting here. Like the others, I've owned a lot of the mics talked about here. The first thing that comes to my mind is that an inexperienced person doesn't need to buy a $3600+ pair of mics. Doesn't that sound crazy? It sounds crazy as I type it. And, Michael - I'm not trying to be disparaging or rude - I'm trying to just bring us all back to Earth here. $3600 for a pair of mics for a "newbie" is, let's be honest, the far end of the spectrum...

You have to ask yourself: "Am I just falling for the hype? Am I just buying gear b/c a Youtube video sounded good? Am I just buying these mics because a few guys on a forum said they use it? Am I buying these mics because the salesman told me that, this one time, in the studio, he got the most amazing guitar sound with them?" As someone who has been in more than my share of "the throes of gear sluttiness", take our word here that the microphone is just piece of the chain.

The Schoeps aren't for everyone. I'll offer my opinion as to why "everyone who can afford a pair" doesn't own them: it's because they've either (a) tried other mics that they love (and they've since never wanted to try another mic, let alone the Schoeps), or (b) they've tried the Schoeps and didn't like them as much as something else. Will that be you? What if you buy them, record with them, and you don't like the sound? Or what if you buy them, record with them, and you flat out cannot make yourself sound like the recordings you like to listen to? You could sell them in the used market for probably $2500-$2800 which means you'd have just lost ~$1000. Or, to go to the opposite end of the spectrum, what if you buy them, record with them, and love them - would you have been able to accomplish the same thing with a $1000 pair of mics? What is that you are missing by not trying other mics?

And heck, why stop at the Schoeps if we're trying to go "to the top of Gear Mountain"? Many folks believe a stereo pair of Neumann KM54s is the holy grail of mics. Why not up the budget a bit to $5000-$6000 and get those? Then you'll have a pair of tube SDCs. At least with the KM54s, you'd be able to sell them for what you paid.

I tend to believe that the final recording is the average of a bunch of different properties, with "gear" being one of those. You can have a great mic but you'll absolutely be "making the least of it" if the rest of those properties aren't of the same quality.

I also agree with Fran that the preamp makes a far smaller difference than you think. Saying that you find it difficult to compare mics that use different preamps is fine - but I'd then have to question your monitoring chain. If you aren't set up with a killer chain in a well-tuned room, there's almost zero chance that what you are hearing is "the difference in preamps" vs. something else (a bias, perhaps).

Take a few days, breathe, think about something else for a while. And then ask yourself, "Is it crazy that I want to spend $3600 on a pair of mics?"
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2013, 08:06 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Acquiring a pair of Schoeps CMC6xx (e,g,m CMC641, CMC64, etc.) can easily be a one time, lifelong purchase.
+1

Regards,

Ty Ford
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2013, 08:23 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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+1

Regards,

Ty Ford
+ 2 You will find that the Schoeps also works very well for almost any other string instrument and as an excellent pair of room mics for piano and acoustic percussion. I use mine (@ about 3'- 6' overhead and out) for Bongo, Djembe, Tamborine, Sticks, Shakers, Spoons etc.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2013, 09:00 AM
Eire Eire is offline
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I've not used all of the mics on sdelsolray's list; of those that are there and I've used, the only one I've kept is the m295, which has more of a mid-size diaphragm, and which I love as a single mic on guitar (when I'm not doubling up) and numerous other instruments as well. As a matched pair, I've gone with a relative unknown on this forum -- but if you peruse the Gearslutz forum, you'll find them well-liked:

http://www.beesneezmicrophones.com.a...d&productId=10

The Beesneez Lulu FETs are clean, and for those of you searching for a high-end matched pair, I'd encourage you to at least consider them; 'Schoeps' is bandied about as something of a holy grail mic for acoustic guitar, but I'd agree with Scott that they aren't for everyone, including those who have tried them. I'd also agree with sdelsolray and Fran that 'clean' is the ticket and suggest that perceived differences between amps is largely psycoacoustic. As the owner of an Apogee Quartet, I can offer from my experience that you're getting 'clean.' Coupled with the Schoeps, you should be one very happy dude. You're fortunate to be able to afford such a combo and blessed in a way most on this forum aren't.
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