I've come across something I find interesting

[Bluenose]

I have a tune that I play that is basically playing diatonically in E major. In other words I'm playing just the notes of the E major scale and I plays these notes over a over a drone E bass.

Sounds boring but if you harmonize in double stops it can be fun. So anyway in this tune I switch to a drone A bass and play the same notes. I'm now playing in the A Lydian mode. The Lydian mode is defined by a sharp 4th, which in the key of A major is the note D# which is the major 7th of E major. I think that is something of interest if you want to learn modes. Comments? Questions? Am I incorrect in my thinking? I don't profess to be a musical theory authority, I know just enough to be dangerous as the saying goes.

[Bain]

I know nothing of this but I have just got into open g tuning and double stops and drone notes work really well , am I in the same ball park as modes ,maybe in a way I suppose ,,just thought I would reply "...............

[rick-slo]

I am usually thinking chromatically when composing something (i.e. any note may show up (chord theory and
naming secondary afterthoughts). Of course usually diatonic notes provides the backbone but there is a greater
freedom in the air. Double stops can fill out the sound as well as provide more options for harmonization.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

I have a tune that I play that is basically playing diatonically in E major. In other words I'm playing just the notes of the E major scale and I plays these notes over a over a drone E bass.

Sounds boring but if you harmonize in double stops it can be fun. So anyway in this tune I switch to a drone A bass and play the same notes. I'm now playing in the A Lydian mode. The Lydian mode is defined by a sharp 4th, which in the key of A major is the note D# which is the major 7th of E major. I think that is something of interest if you want to learn modes. Comments? Questions? Am I incorrect in my thinking? I don't profess to be a musical theory authority, I know just enough to be dangerous as the saying goes.

As long as you switch the key center to A otherwise it won't resolve so well.
How do you manage to play in double stops and use a drone at the same time? Are you playing thumb on all strong beats and two fingers together for the double stops?

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

As long as you switch the key center to A otherwise it won't resolve so well.
How do you manage to play in double stops and use a drone at the same time? Are you playing thumb on all strong beats and two fingers together for the double stops?

Thanks for responding Andyrondack, let me see if I can make this a little clearer.

Maybe I'm using the meaning of 'double stop' too loosely. As an example for what I mean - harmonize the notes of the E maj scale in 6ths starting at the open position on the g and e strings and go up fret by fret I.E. play g# and e, then a and f#, then b and g#, ect. while playing the bass e with the thumb (maybe I should have mentioned that this is only possible fingerpicking or cross picking). You have the option of playing these notes together (fingerpicking) or not (crosspicking) and you can do this with all 6 strings (minus the drone bass) in different combinations up and down the neck as long as the notes are in the E maj scale. I find this amusing but others might not but I like to play around with scales and arpeggios. Now if you use the A string for bass and play the same notes, you are playing notes in the in A Lydian mode. I discovered this just goofing around and thought it significant and wanted to share.

[Bluenose]

Further to my last post... I used the key of E major as an example just because the availability of the open bass string but this works in all keys. In other words, A is the 4th degree in E major and conversely E is the 5th degree in the A major scale. So if you want to play in mode of A Lydian, just think to play the major scale of the 5th degree (E) of that key. If you want to play in the G major Lydian mode play the major scale of the 5th in G which is D and so on. A useful trick. And here's another, if you want to play in the Dorian mode, play the notes of the major scale one tone below. Example if I want to play in G Dorian I would play the notes of the major scale of F only I would use G as the tonic.

Another thing I should mention is the I use the example of 6ths when harmonizing notes in the major scale but basically any interval can work playing diatonically like major 7ths, 3rds and so on. Hopefully someone out there is getting something from my ramblings. I'm a retired civil servant and use to write tons of emails and I kind of miss that. Have a good day.

[mr. beaumont]

This is the best way to get the sound of modes in your head, against a drone.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

Further to my last post... I used the key of E major as an example just because the availability of the open bass string but this works in all keys. In other words, A is the 4th degree in E major and conversely E is the 5th degree in the A major scale. So if you want to play in mode of A Lydian, just think to play the major scale of the 5th degree (E) of that key. If you want to play in the G major Lydian mode play the major scale of the 5th in G which is D and so on. A useful trick. And here's another, if you want to play in the Dorian mode, play the notes of the major scale one tone below. Example if I want to play in G Dorian I would play the notes of the major scale of F only I would use G as the tonic.

Another thing I should mention is the I use the example of 6ths when harmonizing notes in the major scale but basically any interval can work playing diatonically like major 7ths, 3rds and so on. Hopefully someone out there is getting something from my ramblings. I'm a retired civil servant and use to write tons of emails and I kind of miss that. Have a good day.

You may well be right but to be honest that way of thinking about it makes my head hurt too much to use that method.
Knowing how the major scale is constructed from a repeating pattern of full tones and semi tones then like most other musicians I think of modes and minor scales by how their pattern of tones differs relative to the major scale so a Dorian mode would have a b7 and b3 Mixolydian has b 7 but major 3rd . Thinking like that in terms of changes to the intervals is a more musically informative way of understanding how music works as you learn to equate changes to intervals relative to a major scale with changes to the sound produced by different modes and scales.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

Further to my last post... I used the key of E major as an example just because the availability of the open bass string but this works in all keys. In other words, A is the 4th degree in E major and conversely E is the 5th degree in the A major scale. So if you want to play in mode of A Lydian, just think to play the major scale of the 5th degree (E) of that key. If you want to play in the G major Lydian mode play the major scale of the 5th in G which is D and so on. A useful trick. And here's another, if you want to play in the Dorian mode, play the notes of the major scale one tone below. Example if I want to play in G Dorian I would play the notes of the major scale of F only I would use G as the tonic.

This is all correct, and the important point is the "tonic."
The root of the mode has to sound like the keynote, the tonal centre.
If you're just playing by yourself - no backing track - one easy way of doing it is to use an open string drone, as you are doing. To be on the safe side, all you need to do then is finish melodic phrases on the same note.

But the alternative is not to work from the relative major scale at all. So for "A lydian mode", you'd start from A major (not E major) and raise the D to D#. Of course it's all the same notes as E major, but the point is to think form the A keynote to begin with - because that's how modes work in the end anyway. "A lydian mode" doesn't really sound like "E major based on the 4th". It sounds like "A major with a #4".

I.e., it's better to break with the whole relative major "parent" scale relationship altogether. (Same noted, different root.) Better to work "parallel" (same keynote, different scale).

The major scale itself is just another mode, after all.

[Bluenose]

Thanks for all these great responses and I agree that it is a complicated way to think of modes but I believe there is some value in knowing of the relationship between the modes and major (minor?) scales. I'm a nerd and I like to explore these things. It's also good to hear that I'm not out totally out of the ball park with my thinking. Thanks again.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

I have a tune that I play that is basically playing diatonically in E major. In other words I'm playing just the notes of the E major scale and I plays these notes over a over a drone E bass.

Sounds boring but if you harmonize in double stops it can be fun. So anyway in this tune I switch to a drone A bass and play the same notes. I'm now playing in the A Lydian mode. The Lydian mode is defined by a sharp 4th, which in the key of A major is the note D# which is the major 7th of E major. I think that is something of interest if you want to learn modes. Comments? Questions? Am I incorrect in my thinking? I don't profess to be a musical theory authority, I know just enough to be dangerous as the saying goes.

Yes you are incorrect in your thinking.

If you play the same notes but just change the drone note you are not playing in the A Lydian mode you are still playing your original tune in E major, you have not changed anything except to harmonise the tune with a 4th in the bass instead of the tonic.
If you want to play a tune in A Lydian you need to compose a new tune which actually resolves to the A note.
To understand how to use modes It would be a lot easier to just make up a tune using the notes of A major , play it against a drone on the open A string , so fingerstyle hit the open A with the thumb on each metronome beat and with two fingers improvise a melody on the treble strings using A major scale notes which resolves to A (not E!!)
Then convert your improvisations to modes in the same key using the formulas so for Lydian as you would sharpen the 4th so D becomes D#, for Dorian the flatten the 3rd and 7th so C# becomes C and G# becomes G, for Mixolydian flatten the 7th only so G# becomes G and etc for all the other modes using the relevant formula.
But always resolving to A and maintaining the A drone. I' d leave the intervals out of it for a while because for most people who want an introduction to how different modes sound adding intervals just overcomplicates thing.
Or you could play along to the melody of some folk songs which use modes such as The Greenland Whale fishery and She Moved Through the Fair for Mixolydian, sorry don't know of any which specifcally use Lydian but in some culture somewhere there must be some.
Edit
If you want to play your original E tune in E Lydian then carry on with the E string drone bass but wherever the 4th ( A ) comes around sharpen it to Bb.

[Robin, Wales]

Buy a traditional 3 string mountain dulcimer with staple frets set purely diatonically under the melody string only and you'll soon have all the modes sussed out and what drones work with what scales.

I knew little about music theory and nothing of modes until I started to play this simplest of home made folk instruments. And there is all was in front of my eyes and ears.

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by Andyrondack

Yes you are incorrect in your thinking.

If you play the same notes but just change the drone note you are not playing in the A Lydian mode you are still playing your original tune in E major, you have not changed anything except to harmonise the tune with a 4th in the bass instead of the tonic.
If you want to play a tune in A Lydian you need to compose a new tune which actually resolves to the A note.
To understand how to use modes It would be a lot easier to just make up a tune using the notes of A major , play it against a drone on the open A string , so fingerstyle hit the open A with the thumb on each metronome beat and with two fingers improvise a melody on the treble strings using A major scale notes which resolves to A (not E!!)
Then convert your improvisations to modes in the same key using the formulas so for Lydian as you would sharpen the 4th so D becomes D#, for Dorian the flatten the 3rd and 7th so C# becomes C and G# becomes G, for Mixolydian flatten the 7th only so G# becomes G and etc for all the other modes using the relevant formula.
But always resolving to A and maintaining the A drone. I' d leave the intervals out of it for a while because for most people who want an introduction to how different modes sound adding intervals just overcomplicates thing.
Or you could play along to the melody of some folk songs which use modes such as The Greenland Whale fishery and She Moved Through the Fair for Mixolydian, sorry don't know of any which specifcally use Lydian but in some culture somewhere there must be some.
Edit
If you want to play your original E tune in E Lydian then carry on with the E string drone bass but wherever the 4th ( A ) comes around sharpen it to Bb.

A point well taken. Playing a E maj scale over an A bass doesn't mean you're playing in the A lydian mode unless you're using A as the tonic. I knew that and should have been more clear about it in my first post. I wrote the OP after I discovered that while my diatonic tune in E that if I shifted to using an A bass I was now playing the notes of the A lydian mode but still in the key of E major.

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Buy a traditional 3 string mountain dulcimer with staple frets set purely diatonically under the melody string only and you'll soon have all the modes sussed out and what drones work with what scales.

I knew little about music theory and nothing of modes until I started to play this simplest of home made folk instruments. And there is all was in front of my eyes and ears.

Interesting. I'll look into that. Thanks

[Bluenose]

Originally Posted by Twiddle Dee

I have a tune that I play that is basically playing diatonically in E major. In other words I'm playing just the notes of the E major scale and I plays these notes over a over a drone E bass.

Sounds boring but if you harmonize in double stops it can be fun. So anyway in this tune I switch to a drone A bass and play the same notes. I'm now playing in the A Lydian mode. The Lydian mode is defined by a sharp 4th, which in the key of A major is the note D# which is the major 7th of E major. I think that is something of interest if you want to learn modes. Comments? Questions? Am I incorrect in my thinking? I don't profess to be a musical theory authority, I know just enough to be dangerous as the saying goes.

I did say that I was playing in A lydian after just switching bass which is clearly wrong. If I would have said that I'm now playing a different tune in A Lydian using A as the tonic note that would be correct. I hope I've cleared that up.