Review of Emerald custom veneer guitar ordering process

[Gitaman]

Hello everyone,
I know there are quite a few Emerald owners as well as those who are sitting on the fence like me. I am curious about Emerald's level of cusomer service when it comes to ordering a custom veneered guitars. Here is my short version and hope those who are interested in veneered ones could be better educated and adjust their expectations of what CUSTOM guitar means with Emerald veneer division.

After a shaky start of custom veneer guy sending me a wrong picture and a wrong X7 version of 23a, I request again for a version with middle taken out not the outer edge. Custom veneer guy states that there is nothing more he could do with 23a. (I still haven't seen 2a X7 version after two requests nor heard any reason for not providing one.)

How can you not provide a simple photoshop picture of what you are actually getting? How come you can't reduce the X20 template to X7 version by taking out the excess width from the middle? Why only from the outer edge?

The frustration got the better of me and wanted to cancel the whole thing. I could settle nicely with Savoy. But... I did not have the nerve to tell that to Kevin. He is a super nice guy with a ton of patience and a great attitude. There was a part of me that still wanted X7 and I figured if I ordered a plain X7, then I wouldn't have to deal with the veneer guy. So I ordered a red X7.

(Hope this is an anomaly. I would like to think that the word Custom means doing your best to meet the client's requests, not 'Take it or leave it' Catalog ordering level of service. Worse yet not even take the time read the forwarded emails from the client.)

I have no problem sharing the email exchanges to get objective third party assessments but I do not have Emerald's consent. I am very dissappointed that the expectation I had of Emerald's custom guitar service does not match my experience.

I've had 4 custom Emerald guitars and have a new one on the way--and never had a problem with ordering or service.

I haven't had the problems noted in this thread and can see how frustrating it must be. As noted, this experience seem to be an anomaly.

[B. Adams]

I have an X20, and the ordering process was great. I felt like they really made me a part of the process, and I love the guitar I have. Granted, that was when Sean was still there, and I'm not sure what all has changed since then, but my recent experiences with the company have been pleasant as well.

Here's my guess as to what's going on:

Emerald's veneers are bookmatched, like most guitars. To take out the middle of the veneer for the photo would require one of two things, either cut the veneer, or digitally modify the photo and fake it. They're not going to cut the veneer for a photo, of course, and they likely don't have someone on staff with the ability to quickly photoshop it to exactly what you want to see. Even if they did have someone with the ability, that's taking that person away from other work, to spend a bunch of time on a quote that has a good chance of not resulting in a sale. (That's not a dig on you, most quotes don't result in a sale, in my experience). And they might know how much of the middle you want digitally trimmed out, so they might be way off and have to repeat the process over and over, and I can certainly understand why they wouldn't want to deal with that.

I'm sure they could have cut the middle out of the veneer once they started production, that would be easy, but to make it look how you wanted it to look before they started production would have taken a lot of extra work.

When I ordered mine, I didn't want a stripe down the middle, so they found me a bunch of samples (7 total) that they thought I would like. The Ziricote one I was most interested in had a tiny white diamond in the middle, but they said that would be trimmed off during production. Which it was, and it looks amazing, without a speck of white anywhere to be seen.

Next time, and I'm making a mental note of this as well for my own future reference, if anyone wants to see a photo of the middle trimmed out of the veneer, I'd just ask them for a photo of the veneer with and without a template over it. I could scale it pretty easily in my fake-photoshop editor and tell them how much to trim out, and then send them a pic of what I want. I'm guessing they'd go for that, since it wouldn't really be any extra work on their end. That's all just a guess on my part though, I could be way off (it wouldn't be the first time).

Enjoy your X7, I'm sure you'll love it when it gets there. My X20 is my most played guitar, by far, and one of these days I'll get one or two more. I'm tempted to get one without a veneer and save some money, but who knows. I didn't like the colors at first, but they're really starting to grow on me now.

[Gitaman]

Evan and B,
Thank you for the support and sharing of your experience! B, I hope you are right and it was my ignorance that served me justly. Well, I have thought about it and feel that Emerald should have nothing to be offended by my sharing of the email exchanges because:

Case1= If an anomaly, Mr. Hay would appreciate to know about it.
Case2= If that is the standard, this would educate new comers and save time for all parties involved.

I hope this clarifies the picture.

[Gitaman]

Hey DJ


Thats great news, the red artisan is meant to be


Thank you for the offer and hope you have a great week.


Kind regards


Kevin


On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 8:08 AM, dbahk <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Kevin,


I made $100 playing the red in Roulette at Lake Tahoe.* The red is meant to be!


If you are into golf and happened to come by the Bay area,* let me know, I will treat you to a round and dinner.* Have apeasant weekend!


Dj




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: Sales - Emerald Guitars <[email protected]>

Date: 9/14/18 3:30 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: dbahk <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: 23a 2a


Hey Dj


Have a great weekend, the red carbon finish on the X7 is incredible


Kevin


On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 6:22 AM, dbahk <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Kevin,


Thanks for letting me know!* Better not be a red X7 available in stock until then,😎


Overall, I wasted a lot of my tlme as well as that of yours.* It was due to my high expectation of your custom-building process.* Hope Emerald grows to be truly a custom-( What customer wants is what customer gets.)-made CF guitar company some day.* ( 23a with reduction from the middle would have been so sick.* I almost want to fly over there and cut out the veneer myself.* Might as well hire me and let go of Franko the Cranko .* Don't let him see this email, he will mess with my red. Hehe, just kidding.)


Thanks again Kevin, I guess I won't hear from you until you know when!


Bye,


Dj




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: Sales - Emerald Guitars <[email protected]>

Date: 9/13/18 6:43 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: dbahk <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: 23a 2a


Hey DJ*


We are still staying within our 3 month lead time You ordered 17th August so we are talking the latest Mid Nov.

We are trying to build them within that timeline.


Kind regards


Kevin


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 10:37 AM, dbahk <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Kevin,


Thank you for your patience and helping me with the process.* When you have X7 hardcase that fits airline OH bin,* I am in.* Please let me know the estimated shipping date when you find out.


Thanks again, Kevin!


Dj




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: Sales - Emerald Guitars <[email protected]>

Date: 9/13/18 1:20 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: dbahk <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: 23a 2a


Hey DJ


Thank you for your email.* I will change you back to red with anthem.* We no longer fit the SL Anthems in the X7 because the sound hole is larger*

now so we fit the Full anthem which is good news *We are still on the look out for a hardcase to fit the X7.* We have been in talks with several*

companies and yet no match, don't worry though because the search goes on.* Yes you pay week before shipping.


Kevin


On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 5:30 PM, dbahk <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Kevin,


Thank you for taking time to explain the linitations.* It sounds like size reduction from X20 template to that of X7 could only be accomplished by taking out an inch total from the outer edges.* In other words, tightening from the inside edges (never mind the V reduction) is not possible.


I am on the same page now and will order X7 red with Anthem SL.* Do you know whether a hard case for X7 will fit into airplane overhead storage. If so, please include the case.


I am presuming I pay just before shipment?


Thanks again!


Dj




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: Sales - Emerald Guitars <[email protected]>

Date: 9/12/18 5:46 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: dbahk <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: 23a 2a


Hey DJ


Thank you for your email.* The wood has been cut to certain measurements, we do it manually because we want to make the*

wooden veneer process as natural as possible.* We couldn't use photo shop because the wood will only work in certain ways.

Franck is the best man for knowing the veneers and unfortunately the adjustments you asked for were not possible.

Is there another veneer in the collection that you are interested in?


Kind regards


Kevin




On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:13 PM, dbahk <[email protected]> wrote:

Hey Kevin,


*If sending a wrong picture and the second one that never paid any attention to my request to overlap the middle ( just to get an idea of what it may look like ) are all the help I will get,* I should have gotten a photo shop app.* I did not realize you revise manually.


If I have been asking too much,* please forgive my ignorance.* I will stick with what I could see as a final product and order a red with Anthem SL.


Thank you , Kevin, for your work!


Dj





Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: Sales - Emerald Guitars <[email protected]>

Date: 9/12/18 3:35 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: DO JOON BAHK <[email protected]>

Subject: Re: 23a 2a


Hey Dj


Franck has informed me that he has done as much as he can with the veneers chosen, I will attach*

another one on the X7 template which simply beautiful.


Kevin


On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 5:28 AM, DO JOON BAHK <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Kevin,


Don't bother with 6a version 2.* I am leaning towards 23a or 2a,* obviously not a fan of sapwood.* I hear they come out darker than expected.* Is 23a too dark?* How would 2a be affected by the darker outcome?* Dark amber S/B still the right fit for 23a, you think?


I realize I need to rely on your past experience to steer me in the right direction.* Thank you again!


dj

[Gitaman]

Sorry, the the time line is current to past. Too much work to reverse the order.

[Methos1979]

I have now ordered two custom woody Emeralds. Both times the process was relatively painless even though I did a lot of back and forth. The first time was with the old guy that no longer works there - Sean - this most recent time I worked directly with Alistair as Kevin was on vacation. Alistair was great and too the time to get the veneer I'd selected positioned just right since there were special bridge considerations. I will say that I did not as for odd sizing requests like photoshopping and what not.

I've been spending 30 minutes a day to listen to work on Playing For Change. I've finding this really soothing--good musicians from around the work and up-lifting lyrics.

What's also neat is that in the right hand corner of the various PFC sites, there is a listing of yet other musicians. I don't know how I missed all that good stuff--must have been busy making a living, or goofing off.

[Gitaman]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I have now ordered two custom woody Emeralds. Both times the process was relatively painless even though I did a lot of back and forth. The first time was with the old guy that no longer works there - Sean - this most recent time I worked directly with Alistair as Kevin was on vacation. Alistair was great and too the time to get the veneer I'd selected positioned just right since there were special bridge considerations. I will say that I did not as for odd sizing requests like photoshopping and what not.

Methos,

Including you, there are three out of three who had no issues and were happy with services provided. (Btw, I thank you three for sharing your experiences despite the gravity of this post for many reasons.)

That leads me to guestimate an anomaly caused by expectation reality discrepancy. So obviously, the guilty party is rhe CF forum members who have made me build up a monumental and unachievable expectations from a legendary company called Emerald. I got on their good side: posting the arrival of Coco veneers, sharing of the templates... I have no idea where I am going with this, Good night��

btw Evan, you are a funny man... almost Zennish~~
I am gonna call you,
Evan the ZanMan����

[pandaroo]

When I acquired my Cocobolo X20, I also had lots of back and forth. That time I was dealing with Sean, and if there was anything that Sean wasn't sure of, he'd go directly to Alistair.

When it comes to customs, email as a form of communication is not always the most effective way. I had an odd inquiry too and it went through several emails and they still didn't get what I was after. I acknowledged that my inquiry was tricky but yet simple. I just made a conscientious effort to simply pick up the phone and called them to discuss (despite the significant time difference between Australia and Ireland). My odd inquiry was resolved within 5 mins into the conversation. The rest was history. Everything throughout the process exceeded my expectations.

Enjoy your X7. I see a woody X20 in the near horizon for you.

[Alistair Hay]

Originally Posted by Gitaman

Hello everyone,
I know there are quite a few Emerald owners as well as those who are sitting on the fence like me. I am curious about Emerald's level of cusomer service when it comes to ordering a custom veneered guitars. Here is my short version and hope those who are interested in veneered ones could be better educated and adjust their expectations of what CUSTOM guitar means with Emerald veneer division.

After a shaky start of custom veneer guy sending me a wrong picture and a wrong X7 version of 23a, I request again for a version with middle taken out not the outer edge. Custom veneer guy states that there is nothing more he could do with 23a. (I still haven't seen 2a X7 version after two requests nor heard any reason for not providing one.)

How can you not provide a simple photoshop picture of what you are actually getting? How come you can't reduce the X20 template to X7 version by taking out the excess width from the middle? Why only from the outer edge?

The frustration got the better of me and wanted to cancel the whole thing. I could settle nicely with Savoy. But... I did not have the nerve to tell that to Kevin. He is a super nice guy with a ton of patience and a great attitude. There was a part of me that still wanted X7 and I figured if I ordered a plain X7, then I wouldn't have to deal with the veneer guy. So I ordered a red X7.

(Hope this is an anomaly. I would like to think that the word Custom means doing your best to meet the client's requests, not 'Take it or leave it' Catalog ordering level of service. Worse yet not even take the time read the forwarded emails from the client.)

I have no problem sharing the email exchanges to get objective third party assessments but I do not have Emerald's consent. I am very dissappointed that the expectation I had of Emerald's custom guitar service does not match my experience.

I popped in here today to post an update and found this thread and thought I should address it personally.
I have reviewed all our very extensive communication both by email and live chat on your custom guitar build and perhaps we are loosing something in communication. Its always hard to communicate the limitations of an exact piece of veneer and how it can be cut via email so I always encourage customers to call us or even better we get on Skype and do a live consultation.
When we say we do custom I feel we go above and beyond most others but we do work within parameters of what is possible and so perhaps this is a good opportunity to explain to everyone the exact process of how a veneer choice can be carried out.
We have a large library of veneers and each has their own physical and visual differences. All our veneers are cataloged by way of video where i describe the basic characteristics, dimensions and what instruments they may be suited to.
The first step is to decide which species of veneer you like and possibly indicate which sections you find most appealing from the video.
Then we find that piece of veneer and take some pictures using a template on the actual veneer to help find the placement that suits best.
We will often go back and forth multiple times and send different options to get the perfect fit. We are very patient with this but we do ask for understanding that this is a time consuming process.
We are working with limitations with each piece of veneer we have, We have constraints with width where we may not be able to remove more material from the centre as it will leave a piece too narrow or perhaps we cant move a placement up or down because its the end of a sheet.
At this stage the veneer will still be uncut and not fully book matched but rather the 2 half just set side by side.
After selection we then book match and cut the veneer to size ready for the moulding process. It is important to note that during the book matching we have to cut a small amount of the wood from the centre to make a perfect join so the exact centre detail can change slightly from the original pic.
It is also good to note that we are sending pics of the raw veneer so the exact shades of the veneer will change after moulding and finishing.
I am personally heavily involved in the choice of veneers but Frank does the majority of the cutting and placements now. He is a highly skilled artist and has a great eye for finding the best options, you should see his personal artwork some time.
I think in this case something went wrong in how we communicated all this with you but I am reaching out now to make it right and offer you a personal Skype veneer consultation and Im sure we can find a piece of Cocobolo the does exactly what you want.
Let me prove that when Emerald say custom we mean custom.
Alistair

[mot]

Gitaman,

Looks like it's time to get that custom guitar if you are still willing to try.

[ac]

Hope this is useful:

This article might have some value in explaining the difficulty of communicating by only using email. The title is a bit misleading, but it refers to research done on how much miscommunication there can be when using email. Something for each of us to keep in mind on forums as well, as it's essentially the same--written vs. oral or visual communication.

A Skype conference call is a bit more complex, but certainly the way to go for best "meaningful" communication. Skype on cell phones (or Whatsapp, etc.) certainly makes it easier to do than in the past, and it's free.

"According to recent research published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, I've only a 50-50 chance of ascertaining the tone of any e-mail message. The study also shows that people think they've correctly interpreted the tone of e-mails they receive 90 percent of the time."

https://www.wired.com/2006/02/the-se...of-flame-wars/

A guru named I.A. Richards once observed that Rhetoric is the study of misunderstandings. He would love this thread.

Just saw a ravishing duet with the Rolling Stones and Ms. Crow. Muy incredible.

[Gitaman]

Originally Posted by Alistair Hay

I popped in here today to post an update and found this thread and thought I should address it personally.
I have reviewed all our very extensive communication both by email and live chat on your custom guitar build and perhaps we are loosing something in communication. Its always hard to communicate the limitations of an exact piece of veneer and how it can be cut via email so I always encourage customers to call us or even better we get on Skype and do a live consultation.
When we say we do custom I feel we go above and beyond most others but we do work within parameters of what is possible and so perhaps this is a good opportunity to explain to everyone the exact process of how a veneer choice can be carried out.
We have a large library of veneers and each has their own physical and visual differences. All our veneers are cataloged by way of video where i describe the basic characteristics, dimensions and what instruments they may be suited to.
The first step is to decide which species of veneer you like and possibly indicate which sections you find most appealing from the video.
Then we find that piece of veneer and take some pictures using a template on the actual veneer to help find the placement that suits best.
We will often go back and forth multiple times and send different options to get the perfect fit. We are very patient with this but we do ask for understanding that this is a time consuming process.
We are working with limitations with each piece of veneer we have, We have constraints with width where we may not be able to remove more material from the centre as it will leave a piece too narrow or perhaps we cant move a placement up or down because its the end of a sheet.
At this stage the veneer will still be uncut and not fully book matched but rather the 2 half just set side by side.
After selection we then book match and cut the veneer to size ready for the moulding process. It is important to note that during the book matching we have to cut a small amount of the wood from the centre to make a perfect join so the exact centre detail can change slightly from the original pic.
It is also good to note that we are sending pics of the raw veneer so the exact shades of the veneer will change after moulding and finishing.
I am personally heavily involved in the choice of veneers but Frank does the majority of the cutting and placements now. He is a highly skilled artist and has a great eye for finding the best options, you should see his personal artwork some time.
I think in this case something went wrong in how we communicated all this with you but I am reaching out now to make it right and offer you a personal Skype veneer consultation and Im sure we can find a piece of Cocobolo the does exactly what you want.
Let me prove that when Emerald say custom we mean custom.
Alistair

Alistair,

I truly appreciate you personally addressing the issue. I am... speechless!! I will take your offer of Skype consultation.

Thank you!

And I thank everyone for the supportive comments! Without you guys, this communication channel would not have been available.