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Old 09-17-2019, 12:30 PM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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Default Does anyone use a Turbine HVLP Spray system?

I've been trying to get better at spraying. I'm currently trying Crystalac Brite Tone which seems like the first waterborne finish that really looks good.
It behaves well, but being waterborne, it still lacks some of the ease of use that makes nitro more forgiving to spray.

I started spraying the Crystalac Brite Tone with a medium level touch up HVLP gun which makes very little overspray, but I wasn't getting good flowout, so I switched to an older, first generation HVLP conversion gun that's basically an automotive gun. Even though it was marketed as HVLP, that gun makes a ton of overspray which makes a cloud and wastes material (Crystalac is great, but it's not cheap

I've also had what appear to be issues with contaminated air from my compressor.

So-

I'm thinking about making the jump to an HVLP turbine system that's dedicated to spraying, hopefully eliminating the air source as a problem and performing as a true HVLP sprayer.

I'd be interested in comments who has used an HVLP turbine system for spraying guitars. I'd be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who uses a turbine system with waterborne coatings.

Thanks for any wisdom.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:47 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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I use a Fuji three-stage turbine with its HVLP full-size gun. If memory serves me right, fitted with a #2 needle.

It's different than a traditional compressor HPLV system but works ok. You don't have oil contamination issues and don't need oil or water traps. The handle of the HVLP gun does get pretty warm, though, and the thick not very flexible hose requires "management", usually throwing it over my shoulder while spraying. Not near.y the over spray issues as a traditional system. Still need adequate ventilation and a proper mask.

I've sprayed a variety of waterborne "lacquers" with it. It works ok.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:17 PM
emmsone emmsone is online now
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Funnily enough, I'm not having much luck with my attempts to use Crystalac Brite Tone. It seems to spray nicely enough but i just haven't been able to get results i'm happy with.
Almost everyone I know who also does spraying is a cabinet maker. They are all telling me i'm wasting my time with the Brite Tone and should switch to PU or DD acrylic. They are all getting great results so its something i'm considering but I still have half of a pot of Brite Tone left so i may yet attempt to use it in further testing (as you say, its not cheap)

unfortunately though I don't have any experience with HVLP turbine systems
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:33 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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I used Brite Tone pore filler. I found it very slow to fill pores, requiring three or more applications to fill the pores in padauk and mahogany. It scrapes nicely, but clogs abrasive paper/cloth hopelessly.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:58 AM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
Funnily enough, I'm not having much luck with my attempts to use Crystalac Brite Tone. It seems to spray nicely enough but i just haven't been able to get results i'm happy with.
Almost everyone I know who also does spraying is a cabinet maker. They are all telling me i'm wasting my time with the Brite Tone and should switch to PU or DD acrylic. They are all getting great results so its something i'm considering but I still have half of a pot of Brite Tone left so i may yet attempt to use it in further testing (as you say, its not cheap)

unfortunately though I don't have any experience with HVLP turbine systems

David,

Iím just starting with Brite Tone and Iím curious to hear from others before I invest more. What is it you didnít like about the results? Also, whatís DD acrylic?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:23 PM
emmsone emmsone is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep192 View Post
David,

Iím just starting with Brite Tone and Iím curious to hear from others before I invest more. What is it you didnít like about the results? Also, whatís DD acrylic?
Well, its hard to explain, its not exactly terrible but i'm just not getting that 'deep' looking finish, i don't seem to get any more depth to it than a simple oil finish might give. I've seen plenty of other lacquers that seem to have that 'look' straight off the gun, with the final buffing and polishing just making it perfect - and as in this case I'm likely to sand it all off yet again when i decide to go back to this or when i have a gap in my Nylon Crossover build, i'm not motivated to go through the rest of the buffing process past what I tried already on it this time round

I have to apologise, DD Acrylic is apparently german phrasing. A brief search on google to actually come up with a decent explanation of what it is brings up that DD is "Desmodurģ / Desmophenģ" which is a registered trademark of the Bayer corporation for a Polyurethane based Polyether polyol (whatever that means) thermoplastic lacquer. It seems pretty toxic stuff, but it has exceptionally fast dry times, (like sandable in 20-30 minutes) and seems to gives that 'deep' look on the cabinets i've seen my friends do.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:38 PM
Quickstep192 Quickstep192 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
Well, its hard to explain, its not exactly terrible but i'm just not getting that 'deep' looking finish
For what it's worth, I did two tests on figured mahogany. One using Crystalac sanding sealer and one using a coat of polymerized tung oil (to pop the grain) followed by a few coats of shellac (as a sealer and barrier coat), then the Brite Tone.

The sample with the Crystalac Sanding Sealer created a lot of contrast in the grain, but it didn't create any chatoyance and looks kind of lifeless. The sample with the tung oil/shellac/Brite Tone looks better. At this stage, it doesn't look quite as deep as nitro, but I haven't polished it out yet, so we'll see.

Brite Tone is still the best WB I've seen to this point and I'm committed to finding an alternative to volatile finishes for health and safety.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:59 PM
Carey Carey is offline
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I sprayed quite a bit a few waterborne finishes of different makes on guitars,
though not recently; Crystalac was one of the better ones, at the time, though
formulas often change. I got the best results with a large compressor setup
and a Binks gun (sorry, I don't remember the model).

Before that I used a turbine setup that didn't have quite the "oomph" for
really good flowout, though it was adequate. My impression is that flowout
is always a problem with WB finishes, and I tended to put on coats that were
a little heavier than ideal for that reason. It's not like putting down nitro, for sure.

One thing you might consider is doing some test panels in your preferred
WB finish and having a look at them in raking light, esp mornings, and
seeing if you are able to get the appearance that you're looking for, especially
on darker woods if you use them.
I agree that a shellac sealer/base coat does help a bit.

Last edited by Carey; 09-18-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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