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  #16  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:45 AM
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Default 6 29 09 Part 2

After the Rosette hardened I thinned the top to 3mm thick as per one of the books. I had one little peice of material pop out of the rosette. Fixable.

Oh yeah, something tells me this top is not Sitka, its Lutz

This was on the back

Then I went onto figuring out bracing. I have a Martin Sample with normal X bracing on one side and Scalloped on the other. What the heck...Scalloped it is!

I went to my Aircraft wood scrap pile and found a nice straight grained billet.
Copying the sizes I cut the thickness on a table saw then shaped with the Band saw. Man is the band saw easier than a scroll saw!

Then over to the sander for the shaping.


I got most of the bracing done and then read "Put in the X brace first and let it dry over night."
I cut the shape of the top (nerve wracking but not hard) . I allowed a 1/4 over to work down to
The Blues Creek Go Bar deck is the cats meow for assembly. The one I built with Bendy sticks is ok. The bars on this thing bend incredibly then hold even on a thin top ridge. I really thought they would drift and fly like springs. Not once.
I used a 20' radius for the top. Whets that? A slight angle in the dish "arches" the top outward slightly. I need more coffee to better explain.
I have 3 different ones. I used the radius that best imitated the Martin curve on their Braces.


I have big sheets of sand paper. I put one in the dish, wiggled the braces on it till wood came off even the length of the brace. Glue, Gobar, Go make dinner its 10PM!
Additional; I measured and re measured and was destroyed when I figured out my sound hole was 1/2" to high. Well it was a half inch to high because I had used a Yamaha to get my sound hole from the top measurement. Yamaha's are 1/2" higher than Martins! Trade secret don't tell anyone. So there is a flavor of Yamaha in My Martin design. Seems only right.
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2009, 12:51 PM
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John,
Not sure if anyone else pointed this out but I saw where you "Super glued" everything in place. Did you use CA (Super glue) to glue the rosette in the top? If so, did you paint the cavity FIRST with shellac or lacquer BEFORE you glued it in with CA? If not, you are in for a horrible surprise that maybe I can save you from?

IF you used CA on the top, everything looks fine... for now. However, after you put a finish on the guitar and after a few weeks it will develop a lime yellow glow all around the rosette. Don't ask how I know!
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2009, 01:59 PM
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John,
Not sure if anyone else pointed this out but I saw where you "Super glued" everything in place. Did you use CA (Super glue) to glue the rosette in the top? If so, did you paint the cavity FIRST with shellac or lacquer BEFORE you glued it in with CA? If not, you are in for a horrible surprise that maybe I can save you from?

IF you used CA on the top, everything looks fine... for now. However, after you put a finish on the guitar and after a few weeks it will develop a lime yellow glow all around the rosette. Don't ask how I know!
I just glued in the last brace man! Maybe Lutz is immune??? Fingers crossed...
Is that when I do a Sunburst? Shhhhhhh
Now I know; Shelac first. I'll keep going. Add it to oops file
Do I have to do the same for joining the back if I use CA?
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  #19  
Old 07-01-2009, 02:44 PM
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Cool thread John, I'm hooked on this new docu-drama with a just a hint of comedy.
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  #20  
Old 07-01-2009, 03:13 PM
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Cool thread John, I'm hooked on this new docu-drama with a just a hint of comedy.
He knows most of us wouldn't chance doing what he does. It's fun to wait and watch.
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  #21  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:58 PM
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John,
No softwood is immune to the yellow green alien glow of CA. It only shows up UNDER a finish and you won't be able to detect it until a few weeks after you buff it. It is REALLY disappointing too ;( Yep, a good sunburst can be your friend in a time like this.
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  #22  
Old 07-02-2009, 04:53 PM
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Mary- your husband just told me to turn my beautiful braces I made from scratch into toothpicks because I used a way wrong (20') radius! So I will cut out the braces with a sharp chisel and make new ones.
Can't learn this stuff in class!
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  #23  
Old 07-02-2009, 09:37 PM
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Oh well, live and learn man. I give you credit for steaming away full speed ahead, though. You've come a long way in a short amount of time. Keep at it!
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  #24  
Old 07-02-2009, 09:54 PM
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G day YJ great thread i loved the parlor resto job too, keep up the good work and i'm sure the tips from a master craftsman like Tim are greatly appreaciated.
Great work mate.
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2009, 05:00 AM
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G day YJ great thread i loved the parlor resto job too, keep up the good work and i'm sure the tips from a master craftsman like Tim are greatly appreaciated.
Great work mate.
Poor Tim. He is a fountain of information. I try to not bug him. I am working out of 3 books, internet and Mays DVD's. Often that just gives me 5 different answers! Its not the destination, its the trip you have to enjoy or move on huh?
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  #26  
Old 07-03-2009, 10:34 AM
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... its the trip you have to enjoy or move on huh?
The trip is what makes your thread one worth viewing.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2009, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamaha Junkie View Post
...my beautiful braces I made from scratch into toothpicks because I used a way wrong (20') radius! So I will cut out the braces with a sharp chisel and make new ones.
Can't learn this stuff in class!
If you're making your braces again it would be good to use wood with less runout because runout will weaken the strength of the brace considerably.
The reason lutheirs split their billets is for this very reason.

BTW, what is "Oyamel Fir", and where does it come from?

Jim McCarthy
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  #28  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
If you're making your braces again it would be good to use wood with less runout because runout will weaken the strength of the brace considerably.
The reason lutheirs split their billets is for this very reason.

BTW, what is "Oyamel Fir", and where does it come from?

Jim McCarthy
Hmm. I looked at the grain on the end. I am cutting from Quartersawn wood. Do I just change my angle to get rid of run off?

Oyamel Firs are where many Monarch Butterflies Migrate to in Mexico. Millions of them. The forest is protected. But there are Oyamels in other areas used for furniture and such. I don't want it for top wood. Just to incorporate it into the guitar somehow
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2009, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamaha Junkie View Post
Hmm. I looked at the grain on the end. I am cutting from Quartersawn wood. Do I just change my angle to get rid of run off?

Oyamel Firs are where many Monarch Butterflies Migrate to in Mexico. Millions of them. The forest is protected. But there are Oyamels in other areas used for furniture and such. I don't want it for top wood. Just to incorporate it into the guitar somehow
Look at the grain on the side of your braces. See how it runs at an angle?
If you were to split one of those braces it will split right along the grain at a tangent to the bottom of the brace. Ideally, the grain needs to run perfectly parallel to its length. When you split the billet before cutting it to size that ensures that runout is at a minimum.

The side grain will ideally look

Like this
___________
____________
_____________

Not like this ///////////

You can't see runout from looking at the end grain or the face of the board. What the endgrain does show you is whether the grain is cut on the quarter, or whether it's rift or flat sawn. But runout is as important a factor in the strength of the brace as it is being quartersawn.

Jim McCarthy
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  #30  
Old 07-04-2009, 04:43 AM
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Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
Look at the grain on the side of your braces. See how it runs at an angle?
If you were to split one of those braces it will split right along the grain at a tangent to the bottom of the brace. Ideally, the grain needs to run perfectly parallel to its length. When you split the billet before cutting it to size that ensures that runout is at a minimum.

The side grain will ideally look

Like this
___________
____________
_____________

Not like this ///////////

You can't see runout from looking at the end grain or the face of the board. What the endgrain does show you is whether the grain is cut on the quarter, or whether it's rift or flat sawn. But runout is as important a factor in the strength of the brace as it is being quartersawn.

Jim McCarthy
What you are saying makes sense. I was getting snagged in the grain when chiseling.I was shooting for llllllll on the brace. I need to turn my wood 90 degreesish. I'll try it today.
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