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Old 05-04-2021, 07:16 AM
Dennisk012 Dennisk012 is offline
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Default Feedback issues with LR Baggs Anthem.

Recently I performed for the first time with my new guitar + LR Baggs Anthem. Unfortunately I had a lot of feedback problems throughout the show, even with the mic level set to minimum.

I tried a feedback buster, but it didn't help at all. I also noticed that the low E string was much louder than the other strings.

The guitar is a Furch Orange D-SR, and the Anthem is installed by a good luthier.

Shall I ask the luthier to check that the installation was done correctly?
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennisk012 View Post
Recently I performed for the first time with my new guitar + LR Baggs Anthem. Unfortunately I had a lot of feedback problems throughout the show, even with the mic level set to minimum.

I tried a feedback buster, but it didn't help at all. I also noticed that the low E string was much louder than the other strings.

The guitar is a Furch Orange D-SR, and the Anthem is installed by a good luthier.

Shall I ask the luthier to check that the installation was done correctly?
Hi Dennisk012

Can you please describe the feedback…
Low strings, mid range or high treble squeal?
How were PA speakers positioned in relationship to you? Were you well behind them?
Were there floor monitors (or others) facing toward you?
Were you right out of the guitar straight to the snake, or PA board?
How was tone control being adjusted? Was it being adjusted by a tech on the PA mixer (or was there a mixer)?


Since the LOW E string was louder, chances the A string was too…chances are that it needs low-frequency-cut (Hi Pass Filter) or a notch filter.

Just need more info to advise…




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Old 05-04-2021, 08:32 AM
MJ Slaughter MJ Slaughter is offline
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Are you playing solo or with a full band? FWIW I have the Anthem, mix set to full mic, in both my Breedlove Concert and Concerto which are used in my duo with out any feedback. No sound hole cover, we use a floor monitor and have it fairly loud. Oddly enough I use to battle feedback occasionally prior to the Anthem using just the UST and a sound hole cover. I know this doesn't help much but the Anthem can be used without feedback.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:35 AM
Dennisk012 Dennisk012 is offline
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Thanks for your questions!

The feedback mainly came from the low E string.

Plugged the guitar into the Line 6 Helix (for some reverb, and to cut some low using a high pass 130Hz)
XLR-out to FOH and 1/4 inch out to the Acus amp (which was 10 feet behind me)

I was well behind the PA speakers.

There were 3 floor monitors in front of me, but these were mainly for the vocals and the other acoustic guitarist.

Tone/sound was adjusted by a tech on the PA mixer.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:39 AM
Dennisk012 Dennisk012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Slaughter View Post
Are you playing solo or with a full band? FWIW I have the Anthem, mix set to full mic, in both my Breedlove Concert and Concerto which are used in my duo with out any feedback. No sound hole cover, we use a floor monitor and have it fairly loud. Oddly enough I use to battle feedback occasionally prior to the Anthem using just the UST and a sound hole cover. I know this doesn't help much but the Anthem can be used without feedback.
In our regular set I do both. (Full band and only with the singer)
The singer uses a Gibson J-15 (no idea what pickup system is in it)
but he never has any feedback problems.
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Old 05-04-2021, 09:08 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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I would have the installer check the string to string balance. It's not usually a problem with this pickup because it's a linear piezo along the whole slot. But, it could be a problem with the saddle or the saddle slot. These systems are pretty good in terms of feedback rejection. You're next stop would be a notch filter for that frequency.
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Old 05-04-2021, 01:40 PM
HogsNRoses HogsNRoses is offline
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I had trouble with an Anthem in my Furch D24 AR (A is for Alpine spruce).

I switched to a Lyric and it’s about perfect.

I wonder if my problem was that the UST needs another hole on the treble side to tuck the end in. Also, there is a black dot at the end of the UST and it needs to be facing up, IIRC.

I could bust the feedback with an Aion Lumin pedal, with bass and mid turned up to 2 o’clock and treble between 11 and 12 o’clock. Still, the Lyric was better.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:56 PM
Matt_Ellis Matt_Ellis is offline
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Hi,
I had the same problem and discovered that it was the way the piezo ribbon was installed in the slot. LR Baggs has an installation guide on their site to show how it's to be positioned. Apparently it's a little finicky. One important thing is that the saddle is perfectly flat on the bottom where it presses on the piezo....the saddle slot itself can be a source of problems if that's not flat or wide enough. The edge of the piezo ribbon is supposed to go beyond the high E string by a reasonable amount. I found that to be the source of my problem.

Good Luck!
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Old 05-04-2021, 03:31 PM
HogsNRoses HogsNRoses is offline
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Agreeing with Matt. I also had that same Anthem in my 12 string and had drilled a hole on the treble side. It worked there. Now that Anthem is in my Gibson, with the end of the UST in the second hole. The Furches have Lyrics.
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Old 05-04-2021, 04:02 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogsNRoses View Post
Agreeing with Matt. I also had that same Anthem in my 12 string and had drilled a hole on the treble side. It worked there. Now that Anthem is in my Gibson, with the end of the UST in the second hole. The Furches have Lyrics.
How do the Lyrics sound in your Furches? Do you use an outboard EQ?
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Old 05-04-2021, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennisk012 View Post
Thanks for your questions!

The feedback mainly came from the low E string.

Plugged the guitar into the Line 6 Helix (for some reverb, and to cut some low using a high pass 130Hz)
XLR-out to FOH and 1/4 inch out to the Acus amp (which was 10 feet behind me)

I was well behind the PA speakers.

There were 3 floor monitors in front of me, but these were mainly for the vocals and the other acoustic guitarist.

Tone/sound was adjusted by a tech on the PA mixer.
Hi Dennisk…

The center frequency of the low E string is about 82Hz, so I'd start notching or doing a hi-pass to around 80Hz and see what happens if it happens again.

Also I'd apply the same adjustment to the onstage Acus.


©Wikipedia


Looks like you are taking appropriate steps to minimizing feedback.

We all seem to have THE answer in threads like this, but there is experimentation necessary when stray feedback creeps up on us.

I also carry this quick list of central frequencies in my photo's app on my phone (in the FAVORITES section). It comes in handy when I'm playing or mixing or helping others setup their stage rigs.


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  #12  
Old 05-04-2021, 06:28 PM
HogsNRoses HogsNRoses is offline
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Default Lyric vs. Anthem vs. EQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
How do the Lyrics sound in your Furches? Do you use an outboard EQ?
The Lyric sounds OK. I'm not a great player, but here are some recordings to show the Lyric in an unscientific comparison. The presence control is at the factory setting:

1) The Furch D24 AR recorded by a Shure iOS mic (light compression in the Shure's app), then mixed down to mono in Audacity. Three week old strings:



2) Recorded straight into an old M-Audio USB interface. Three day old strings:



3) Using an active/passive direct box of my own design that buffers the outputs:



I don't use a pedal EQ, just the sound system. Over the past several days I recorded many EQ options, including Radial's PZ-Pre and the MXR 10 band EQ, and I concluded they change the tone of the guitar. An EQ is still helpful to save a gig, or as an effect.

To another poster's point, the OP could use the PZ's 80Hz cut. In my case similar to the OP, my problem was the note "G." Therefore, on the MXR I turned down 31.25Hz and 62.5Hz all the way and 125Hz down 3dB. Still, that robbed some of the life from my tone.


BONUS:

Here is the J45 with Nickel Bronze strings. First, with a microphone:



Now with the Anthem pickup into my direct box:

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Last edited by HogsNRoses; 05-04-2021 at 06:48 PM. Reason: Added recordings, fixed subject
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:57 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogsNRoses View Post
The Lyric sounds OK. I'm not a great player, but here are some recordings to show the Lyric in an unscientific comparison. The presence control is at the factory setting:



1) The Furch D24 AR recorded by a Shure iOS mic (light compression in the Shure's app), then mixed down to mono in Audacity. Three week old strings:







2) Recorded straight into an old M-Audio USB interface. Three day old strings:







3) Using an active/passive direct box of my own design that buffers the outputs:







I don't use a pedal EQ, just the sound system. Over the past several days I recorded many EQ options, including Radial's PZ-Pre and the MXR 10 band EQ, and I concluded they change the tone of the guitar. An EQ is still helpful to save a gig, or as an effect.



To another poster's point, the OP could use the PZ's 80Hz cut. In my case similar to the OP, my problem was the note "G." Therefore, on the MXR I turned down 31.25Hz and 62.5Hz all the way and 125Hz down 3dB. Still, that robbed some of the life from my tone.





BONUS:



Here is the J45 with Nickel Bronze strings. First, with a microphone:







Now with the Anthem pickup into my direct box:



Thanks for sharing. I will get the good headphones out and give these a listen. Through the laptop they sounded very balanced.
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Old 05-05-2021, 03:14 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Slaughter View Post
Are you playing solo or with a full band? FWIW I have the Anthem, mix set to full mic, in both my Breedlove Concert and Concerto which are used in my duo with out any feedback. No sound hole cover, we use a floor monitor and have it fairly loud. Oddly enough I use to battle feedback occasionally prior to the Anthem using just the UST and a sound hole cover. I know this doesn't help much but the Anthem can be used without feedback.
Consider yourself lucky. Everyone I know that plays professionally around me has had feedback problems with their Anthem systems, especially if they play at concert levels, solo or band. I've had the Anthem in three guitars, and of those, of the two that I play regularly, I couldn't wait to pull them out of. Not only did they feedback, but I found as the volume came up I heard compression artifacts that I surely didn't like. The same compression sounds that I hated about the Lyric pickup which I yanked out of my J45. At low volumes, I didn't mind the Anthem. In that situation in sounded way more natural.

I don't miss them at all in the guitars that I've pulled them from. In those, I had the full blown system. The guitar that still has one is the StagePRO barndoor version. Of all the Anthem systems, I like that one the best, because of the somewhat effective side mounted notch filter and EQ contols, which were much easier to adjust on the fly, compared to the soundhole mounted controls in the others.
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Old 05-05-2021, 03:40 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Consider yourself lucky. Everyone I know that plays professionally around me has had feedback problems with their Anthem systems, especially if they play at concert levels, solo or band. I've had the Anthem in three guitars, and of those, of the two that I play regularly, I couldn't wait to pull them out of. Not only did they feedback, but I found as the volume came up I heard compression artifacts that I surely didn't like. The same compression sounds that I hated about the Lyric pickup which I yanked out of my J45. At low volumes, I didn't mind the Anthem. In that situation in sounded way more natural.

I don't miss them at all in the guitars that I've pulled them from. In those, I had the full blown system. The guitar that still has one is the StagePRO barndoor version. Of all the Anthem systems, I like that one the best, because of the somewhat effective side mounted notch filter and EQ contols, which were much easier to adjust on the fly, compared to the soundhole mounted controls in the others.
That’s very strange. I have tried the SL, full Anthem and Lyric on insanely loud stages and outdoor festivals and never once had feedback. Not even a touch of feedback. I am talking 15” monitors (four) right in front of us at fairly loud volumes and nothing. I am at a loss for why so many people you know, are having feedback issues. I am not an Anthem lover by any means so this isn’t me trying to praise the system!
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