Tak Cool Tube Question

[krugjr]

with CTP-1, CTP-2, and CTP-3, if you turn the cool tube off, are you left with exactly the same plugged in sound controls as if I had the CT-4BII?

[benderman57]

Originally Posted by krugjr

with CTP-1, CTP-2, and CTP-3, if you turn the cool tube off, are you left with exactly the same plugged in sound controls as if I had the CT-4BII?

I've had both at the same time and in my mind no it's not the same but close of course. You'd almost have to try it in the same guitar and use your ears to tell if there is any difference. I of course had it in different guitars and even different body styles.

I'm a fan of the early CTP-2 preamps. They have a more punchy output. The more revisions they made of that preamp made it more quite as far as white noise but it started to suck the life out of it.

I'm not a fan of the CTP-3 at all. More feedback suppression for sure but it's very sterile sounding in comparison.

I do like the CT-4BII and can use that live no problem but I really love the combo of the CTP-2 with adding a little bit of Mag pickup to the mix the best. You can't mix in a Mag pickup onboard with the CT-4BII or I would probably use that preamp instead.

I know you can achieve fantastic lives tones with the CT4-BII as I've been to a lot of concerts where the player was using only this and it was a wonderful plugged in tone with nothing more than the guitar and a DI and of course a great PA system with someone who knows how to mix and EQ the guitar.

Best of luck in your tone quest!

[krugjr]

thanks, benderman.....appreciate your input...

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by benderman57

I've had both at the same time and in my mind no it's not the same but close of course. You'd almost have to try it in the same guitar and use your ears to tell if there is any difference. I of course had it in different guitars and even different body styles.

I'm a fan of the early CTP-2 preamps. They have a more punchy output. The more revisions they made of that preamp made it more quite as far as white noise but it started to suck the life out of it.

I'm not a fan of the CTP-3 at all. More feedback suppression for sure but it's very sterile sounding in comparison.

I do like the CT-4BII and can use that live no problem but I really love the combo of the CTP-2 with adding a little bit of Mag pickup to the mix the best. You can't mix in a Mag pickup onboard with the CT-4BII or I would probably use that preamp instead.

I know you can achieve fantastic lives tones with the CT4-BII as I've been to a lot of concerts where the player was using only this and it was a wonderful plugged in tone with nothing more than the guitar and a DI and of course a great PA system with someone who knows how to mix and EQ the guitar.

Best of luck in your tone quest!

I was involved with the design of the CTP-2, this evolution helped reduce the sometimes overwhelming low end of the CTP-1 as well as improved battery life and added features like the low battery indicator, standby, etc. It was a tricky balance between adding enough "musically interesting tube harmonics" and keeping the preamp from being feedback prone (mostly when a LOT of the CT effect was used). IME, a little bit of tube goes a long ways. From what I understand, the CTP-2 was built in the highest numbers, but that may no longer be true now that it's been discontinued.

I do not know why there were the additional versions, or what they added/took away but it's possible that the contribution of the tube may have been diminished so that people who didn't read the manual and turned the tube balance all the way up wouldn't suffer quite so so bad.

Hope this helps

[benderman57]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

I was involved with the design of the CTP-2, this evolution helped reduce the sometimes overwhelming low end of the CTP-1 as well as improved battery life and added features like the low battery indicator, standby, etc. It was a tricky balance between adding enough "musically interesting tube harmonics" and keeping the preamp from being feedback prone (mostly when a LOT of the CT effect was used). IME, a little bit of tube goes a long ways. From what I understand, the CTP-2 was built in the highest numbers, but that may no longer be true now that it's been discontinued.

I do not know why there were the additional versions, or what they added/took away but it's possible that the contribution of the tube may have been diminished so that people who didn't read the manual and turned the tube balance all the way up wouldn't suffer quite so so bad.

Hope this helps

Yes it does, Thanks for chiming in on this.

I believe there were 5 revisions of the CTP-2. Versions 1- 3 I really can't tell much if any difference. These have the highest output and are punchy (best way for me to describe it.) On versions 4 thru 6 that I've owned have way less output and sound somewhat compressed in comparison. Now I will say with less output they do run in idle much quieter but this is nothing you really hear while playing anyway. I still own 7 Takamines even though I've retired from the road. I went through all kinds of preamps that Takamine made to fit the Japan made guitars. For me the early versions of the CTP-2 preamps and adding just a little of a Mag pickup was my best tone/feedback rejection I had during my touring years on pretty big stages.

I usually dialed in just shy of 1/2 way on the tube and about a 1/3 volume on the added Mag.

[agedhorse]

I am only aware of 1 revision to the CTP-2, I don't know what they would have changed or why... I generally follow the rule of "if it's not broken, don't fix it". I worked on the original CTP-2 release and the first revision (which iirc was trivial)

[krugjr]

must make it difficult to "find" the right one, early vs later, when picking up a used Tak with CTP-2.....how would you know which years had which versions? or, which used CTP-2 I'd be getting when purchasing a used one?

[krugjr]

my original question was, if I have any cool tube and turn the cool tube to zero, will that basic tone/sound control be the same as the CT-4BII?

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by krugjr

must make it difficult to "find" the right one, early vs later, when picking up a used Tak with CTP-2.....how would you know which years had which versions? or, which used CTP-2 I'd be getting when purchasing a used one?

I have no idea.

Originally Posted by krugjr

my original question was, if I have any cool tube and turn the cool tube to zero, will that basic tone/sound control be the same as the CT-4BII?

I don't know, but there is still some color and eq with the tube balance set to zero. This is true of the CTP-1 and the CTP-2's that I am aware of.

[benderman57]

Most of the CTP-2 preamps I've removed from a guitar have a little sticker on the rear of the unit which says what Revision it is. I don't believe the first one has a sticker which makes sense. But I have had Rev 2 , 3, 4 and 6. I don't know if there is a 5 but I've never had one.

I got my early preamps after much back & forth with Mr. Takamine USA aka Addicted to tone on eBay & Reverb. He really researched and did all kinds of testing to find me the the best output/sounding preamps he was able to source from Japan. I scored a Rev 3 last year on eBay and keep it for a spare.

He is the guy when it comes to all things Takamine and was a god send for me when I was taking 3 & 4 guitars out on the road.

[agedhorse]

It's possible that some of the revisions were due to the nonavailability of a specific part and a different part or vendor was used. This may not change any of the performance parameters and is simply a record keeping exercise.

There were some differing opinions during the development of the CTP-2, Once we were done and the original CTP-2 was released, it's possible that other opinions or (strong) personalities won out and those changes were included later, but those ideas were not universally accepted or they would have been designed in from the start.

Once we were done with the project, we didn't have any more involvement.

[krugjr]

excellent info, benderman and agedhorse.....thanks.....