Entry-Level Flamenco

[MrErikJ]

Hey All! I've been, casually, playing flamenco for about 15 years (off and on). I've mostly just worked from Juan Serrano's book but the years of that have almost put a hole in my classical. When things settle a bit, I'd like to acquire an inexpensive, but quality, flamenco for those purposes and save my classical some abuse.

What I've seen so far have been the Yamaha CG172SF, Cordoba F7, and the Cordoba F7 Paco. Anyone try any of these and/or have a recommendation? The Cordobas seem to have nicer features but I've heard their construction quality comes up short when compared to the Yamaha. I'm the with replacing nuts and saddles if the guitar is built better but the Cordobas are, admittedly, very pretty.

Input is appreciated.

[Carey]

Francisco Navarro's student model (made by his son now, I think) would be worth checking out. Lot of bang for the buck, there..

Disclosure: I have a fondness for Paracho makers; YMMV.

[Su_H.]

May I ask how you have come to know Juan Serrano? I grew up in Fresno and started playing guitar in 1992. I joined the Fresno guitar society and during my first attendance, Juan came by to say hi to me. Unbeknownst to me, I had no idea who he was . Finally Juan said, "Is it possible you don't know who I am?" I admitted that I didn't and when he said his name, I took his hand again and shook it graciously. After serving 4 years in the United States Navy, I came back to Fresno to study music at Fresno State University where I had the privilege to study with Juan for one year before he retired.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Su_H.

May I ask how you have come to know Juan Serrano? I grew up in Fresno and started playing guitar in 1992. I joined the Fresno guitar society and during my first attendance, Juan came by to say hi to me. Unbeknownst to me, I had no idea who he was . Finally Juan said, "Is it possible you don't know who I am?" I admitted that I didn't and when he said his name, I took his hand again and shook it graciously. After serving 4 years in the United States Navy, I came back to Fresno to study music at Fresno State University where I had the privilege to study with Juan for one year before he retired.

I don’t know him personally but his book was recommended to me by my former teacher, Kansas City/St Joseph’s Jason Riley. I was inspired to dip my toe into flamenco as a side squeeze by Paco De Lucía and mentioned it to Jason. He said that he wouldn’t recommend starting with Paco (lol) and showed me some technique he was familiar with. He mentioned that, if I was interested in studying it further, that there was a really good book about basic flamenco technique and solos by Juan Serrano. I walked into my music shop that same day and ordered it. I’ve been playing from it off and on for 15 years and, my goal, is to learn his techniques and solos (competently) and move onto another tutorial. Unfortunately, time and priority has never allowed me to focus much on it but every time I can come back to it, I love it and play it better than before.

In the meantime, I’d like to get an inexpensive flamenco to facilitate my side passion while the classical can be rededicated to standard fingerstyle technique

[Bax Burgess]

The Cordoba F7 is overly rich for Flamenco. Looks the part, but it's not even the slightest bit dry. Also, laminate tops being more limited/focussed when compared to solid tops, you could consider one.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

The Cordoba F7 is overly rich for Flamenco. Looks the part, but it's not even the slightest bit dry. Also, laminate tops being more limited/focussed when compared to solid tops, you could consider one.

I’m assuming you’re referring to their Blanca and not their “Paco” negra model?

[Bax Burgess]

Yes, the blanca.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

Yes, the blanca.

Thank you for clarifying. Alvarez also has the CF6 available but, again, not many reviews available.

[Su_H.]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

I don’t know him personally but his book was recommended to me by my former teacher, Kansas City/St Joseph’s Jason Riley. I was inspired to dip my toe into flamenco as a side squeeze by Paco De Lucía and mentioned it to Jason. He said that he wouldn’t recommend starting with Paco (lol) and showed me some technique he was familiar with. He mentioned that, if I was interested in studying it further, that there was a really good book about basic flamenco technique and solos by Juan Serrano. I walked into my music shop that same day and ordered it. I’ve been playing from it off and on for 15 years and, my goal, is to learn his techniques and solos (competently) and move onto another tutorial. Unfortunately, time and priority has never allowed me to focus much on it but every time I can come back to it, I love it and play it better than before.

In the meantime, I’d like to get an inexpensive flamenco to facilitate my side passion while the classical can be rededicated to standard fingerstyle technique

If you can play Juan Serrano's material, then I applaud you. I learned 3 pieces from him: Farucus, Soleares, and Zambra. The one piece that I would love to learn and play one day is Granaina. That piece is so sick.

Best wishes and hopefully you find the right flamenco guitar.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Su_H.

If you can play Juan Serrano's material, then I applaud you. I learned 3 pieces from him: Farucus, Soleares, and Zambra. The one piece that I would love to learn and play one day is Granaina. That piece is so sick.

Best wishes and hopefully you find the right flamenco guitar.

Don’t pat me on the back yet, these are arrangements from his tutorial. I’m confident they are very “beginner” or “intermediate” level.

I lost the CD to the book years ago but when I want to listen to one of the songs for context’s sake, this gentleman has posted clips on YouTube of a bunch of Serrano’s tutorial solos. This is the Sevillanas:

[MrErikJ]

Just to update, I ordered the Córdoba Paco bc I was partial to its appearance, tho I see very little reason to believe it’s particularly “Paco-like.” I don’t recall him using a cedar topped negra but it’s possible.

I’ll report on it when I get it.

[MrErikJ]

So, I received my F7 Paco a week or so ago and haven’t gotten to spend a ton or time with it as I’m working from home (and have a one year old). That said, I like it, it’s well made, sounds nice, and plays well. However, it doesn’t currently sound very flamenco. It sounds pretty similar to my other classical, so I would say it could work rather well for fingerstyle a la Jerry Reed, that requires a faster response and slightly subdued bass. But, with the current setup, which isn’t very low, and the thinner depth, combined with the high tension Savarez strings sounds more “modern nylon” than like a flamenco. That said, I think I’ll adjust the truss to lower the action (the saddle height is perfect) and switch to some La Bella Flamenco nylons and see if it doesn’t crossover a little bit more.

A very nice guitar as a whole but I don’t think it’s particularly “flamenco negra” yet. it might have it in there but it doesn’t sound terribly “Paco” yet. But, neither do I.

[dosland]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

...That said, I think I’ll adjust the truss to lower the action (the saddle height is perfect) and switch to some La Bella Flamenco nylons and see if it doesn’t crossover a little bit more. ...

In my extensive ignorance I was under the impression that adjustments to the truss rod were more useful in addressing neck relief issues than the action (and maybe attack?). Flattening the relief out all the way will probably help up the fretboard a way, but it (I think?) won't do so much for your first five frets or so. As I said, my ignorance in this area is near total, so I may be way off here. In your position maybe I'd try getting another saddle and shaving it down a way - try the same with the nut too, I suppose - to make a more significant adjustment to the setup? I've occasionally dreamed of lowering the height of the nut on a guitar, but at least one of my guitars has had its nut glued into position, and I don't have the guts to deal with something like that.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by dosland

In my extensive ignorance I was under the impression that adjustments to the truss rod were more useful in addressing neck relief issues than the action (and maybe attack?). Flattening the relief out all the way will probably help up the fretboard a way, but it (I think?) won't do so much for your first five frets or so. As I said, my ignorance in this area is near total, so I may be way off here. In your position maybe I'd try getting another saddle and shaving it down a way - try the same with the nut too, I suppose - to make a more significant adjustment to the setup? I've occasionally dreamed of lowering the height of the nut on a guitar, but at least one of my guitars has had its nut glued into position, and I don't have the guts to deal with something like that.

Oh, I’m certain you’re correct. The truss is a part of the setup process but it’s not the best solution for lowering the action. I am a little hesitant to lower the saddle though, as it has a pretty ideal break currently.

This is a short term solution as I’m not going out to get a proper setup currently lol

[dosland]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

This is a short term solution as I’m not going out to get a proper setup currently lol

Good point, I've got an ever-growing list of things I really SHOULD get done but just can't get out to do at present... Fortunately, it turns out I'm well stocked with strings for now!