Tommy Emmanuel said my guitar is hard to play

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by Perro

I did a lot of research on the type of guitar I wanted to drop the money on (type of wood, size) but didn’t realize anything about stuff like setting it up. This is my first premium guitar, but besides that I went in blind and ordered it online, so no one was there to aid me with setting it up. In fact, I remembered way after the fact that I had an Alan key in the case that it came in. Had I recalled that, Tommy may have corrected my relief then and there.

Hey don't feel bad about not knowing setup. We all embark on our guitar journeys at different points. Kudos for doing the research you did and no one here knows all there is to know about guitars. Just enjoy the ride, knowing you got to meet a guitar hero to many of us who have not had the good fortune of having him examine our guitars!

[Street Glider]

Originally Posted by Coler

At the level of pure mechanical princiole, yes.

As regards truss rods, I first knew of their existence about 8 years ago and I first adjusted one myself this year (playing for 25 years or so).

I'd say the majority of people who own an acoustic guitar don't know anything about them, if they even know about their existence in the first place. In fairness it's how they are sold - how many guitars come with a tool and instructions how to use it to make adjustments?

I'm my case, even after I knew what it was and what it did I wouldn't have been confident enough to go anywhere near it until I sat down and tried to educate myself.

In all honesty, in my 40+ years of playing, I don't believe I've ever met another guitar player who didn't know what the truss rod was for or how it's adjusted.

I've no issue with anyone not doing it themselves...

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Street Glider

In all honesty, in my 40+ years of playing, I don't believe I've ever met another guitar player who didn't know what the truss rod was for or how it's adjusted.

I've no issue with anyone not doing it themselves...

I think the biggest misconception among those who don't know about set ups is going straight to a truss adjustment for action. But we all know here that it is actually saddle, nut and then truss rod for getting optimal playability. Guess where I learned that? Right here on AGF.

You weren't at least a little bit intimidated by performing your first truss rod adjustment? I wasn't, but only because it was the cheapest and most awful acoustic I've ever owned. That is where I performed my first adjustments. But would I be nervous on a Furch if it were my first guitar? Yes I think I would be. Not only this, many of us learn the hard way what we think is good playability, until we play something that actually has it. Everything is learned by experience and now I set up my own guitars, no problem.

[Coler]

Originally Posted by Street Glider

In all honesty, in my 40+ years of playing, I don't believe I've ever met another guitar player who didn't know what the truss rod was for or how it's adjusted.

I've no issue with anyone not doing it themselves...

I don't know if your definition of "guitar player" is the same as mine of "people who own an electric guitar".

Personally I picked up a no-brand acoustuc when I was 16 and there was no one around to tell me what to do with it.

About 8 years ago I was upgrading my then-guitat, a low cost yamaha, to a Martin D17M, and I knew enough that I should get it set up which I did, but that was the height of it.

Then this year/last year I did some reading up on set ups. Motivated by the fact that every where was closed so there was no place to get my new 000 adjusted.

Ultimately I did bring it to a guy who did a not so great job. By then I had my D18. Decided to invest in some tools and do them myself (saddle shaver was the only costly one). For the record, more nervous than on my wedding night.

Casual players don't tend to know or care about this stuff. Those of us who are "into" guitars do.

And most shops sell 'em to .out people without talking about it at all or by advising people not to mess with it themselves. They by and large don't come with instructions either.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I think the biggest misconception among those who don't know about set ups is going straight to a truss adjustment for action. But we all know here that it is actually saddle, nut and then truss rod for getting optimal playability. Guess where I learned that? Right here on AGF.

I think you have the order in reverse there - relief (truss-rod) is usually the first element, then nut-slots, then saddle.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[s2y]

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to adjust a truss rod. It's probably best for someone to receive a little instruction beforehand. The wrong sized wrench can strip the nut. It's possible to damage the truss rod on some guitars if wrenched too hard.

[Street Glider]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I think the biggest misconception among those who don't know about set ups is going straight to a truss adjustment for action. But we all know here that it is actually saddle, nut and then truss rod for getting optimal playability. Guess where I learned that? Right here on AGF.

You weren't at least a little bit intimidated by performing your first truss rod adjustment? I wasn't, but only because it was the cheapest and most awful acoustic I've ever owned. That is where I performed my first adjustments. But would I be nervous on a Furch if it were my first guitar? Yes I think I would be. Not only this, many of us learn the hard way what we think is good playability, until we play something that actually has it. Everything is learned by experience and now I set up my own guitars, no problem.

I've actually said nothing about doing truss rod adjustments. I'm not sure how that became the focus of the thread, but my comment actually has nothing to do with actually adjusting anything.

My point is that my experience has taught me that by the time someone is spending that kind of money on a guitar, they've been buying guitars long enough so that they are, at the very least, aware of what a truss rod does.

That didn't seem to be the case in the OP's video, and I just thought that was strange...

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Street Glider

I've actually said nothing about doing truss rod adjustments. I'm not sure how that became the focus of the thread, but my comment actually has nothing to do with actually adjusting anything.

My point is that my experience has taught me that by the time someone is spending that kind of money on a guitar, they've been buying guitars long enough so that they are, at the very least, aware of what a truss rod does.

That didn't seem to be the case in the OP's video, and I just thought that was strange...

There's a guy in my town, he is an extraordinary musician, and teacher.

One day when I was at his house for a theory lesson, he was trying to patch in an Overdrive pedal...

He asked me if I could take a look, as it wasn't working..

The problem was... he couldn't quite figure out the cabling with "input" and "output". I was kind of stunned that tossed him, given his talent level as a player and instructor.

[Perro]

Originally Posted by Street Glider

My point is that my experience has taught me that by the time someone is spending that kind of money on a guitar, they've been buying guitars long enough so that they are, at the very least, aware of what a truss rod does.

This is only my second guitar I have bought. Been playing an old Dreadnaught Takamine for probably 15 years on and off before I decided to drop some money on this one, since I was finally at a place in my life where I could afford to. A majority of the research I did was on brands/models that fit my style of playing. In none of that research time did I ever really think about setup of an acoustic, I thought that once I got it that it was good to go out of the case.

I am glad I asked Tommy to play it, because had I not, who knows how much longer I would have went without knowing of such a simple concept. Regardless, this was definitely a learning experience, and going forward general setup and maintenance is definitely something I’m going to cater to for this guitar to keep it playing like new.

Hope that clears up some confusion (doubting it does but that’s okay!)

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

I think you have the order in reverse there - relief (truss-rod) is usually the first element, then nut-slots, then saddle.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

No, I do not have the order reversed as I was not talking about relief but action.

Yes, my mileage does vary.

Originally Posted by Street Glider

I've actually said nothing about doing truss rod adjustments. I'm not sure how that became the focus of the thread, but my comment actually has nothing to do with actually adjusting anything.

My point is that my experience has taught me that by the time someone is spending that kind of money on a guitar, they've been buying guitars long enough so that they are, at the very least, aware of what a truss rod does.

That didn't seem to be the case in the OP's video, and I just thought that was strange...

I see no issue with someone discovering the concept of a truss rod for the first time. Obviously the OP is more focused on being a great player than anything else, and Tommy understands this and acts with kindness and understanding. What a great guy!

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

No, I do not have the order reversed as I was not talking about relief but action.

Yes, my mileage does vary.

So was I - you don’t adjust the saddle height first, it’s the last step in the setting of the action. The first step is to get relief correct. Nut slot height is second. So - relief>nut slots>saddle is the generally-accepted best practice. The reasons are set out in the first paragraph of Bryan Kimsey’s article, linked to below…

https://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

So was I - you don’t adjust the saddle height first, it’s the last step in the setting of the action. The first step is to get relief correct. Nut slot height is second. So - relief, nut slots, saddle is the generally-accepted best order.

Check out Bryan Kimsey’s paper on guitar setup…https://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/

This is my process as well.

Relief first (via the truss rod) because that's what will prevent string buzz while giving you lowest possible action once you've set the other variables. The range I've seen when you fret 1 and 12, is between 0.005" - 0.012" on the 6th fret. If you have a strong right hand attack you'll want to be at the upper end, if you use a light attack you can go to the lower end. I have mine right around 0.008" and I don't get buzzing even when I strum firmly, but I don't "Pete Townshend Windmill" either. Relief is first because, since you're using the first and twelfth fret as anchor points, it's a true(ish) measure of the neck's relief independent of nut slot depth and saddle height, you've taken them out of the equation.

Nut slot depth is second because it does have an effect on action, so you want this dialed in before you adjust the saddle. However this has the least variable of movement. Meaning the top of your guitar rising/falling from changes in humidity, or a string tension change, will have an effect measurable at the saddle but not at the nut. So you want to get the first fret clearance dialed in next. Music Nomad's set recommends 0.020" for E and A, 0.018" for G and D, and 0.016" for B and e. I have mine at about 0.018" for all wound strings, and 0.016" for the plain strings.

Final step is saddle for action at the 12th fret, and only after you've dialed in relief and nut slot depth. Because if you don't, and then you have to adjust either one later, you're going to have to adjust your saddle again. Be sure to keep the bottom level as you're sanding to maintain best possible contact with the bridge, I can tell you from firsthand mista...experience that an un-level bottom of the saddle will have a detrimental effect on tone.

[Street Glider]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I guess I don't have your level of experience because I see no issue with someone discovering the concept of a truss rod for the first time.

The OP has explained it very well, but I have to respond to this, because I find you comment mildly snarky.

By the time someone drops a few grand on an instrument, it's probably a fair bet that they've been around guitars for a while. I guess I assume that someone who invests that kind of money into a guitar is going to have a bit more knowledge about the guitar he's buying...

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Perro

Met Tommy Emmanuel during a meet and greet last night and he told me my guitar was hard to play, despite the fact that he played his song Gameshow Rag effortlessly on it, after I attempted to roughly play it for him.

https://youtu.be/fW_NnCnTxqs

I learned about a “bowed neck” on my new Furch Yellow guitar, but didn’t think to ask too much more about it. I did notice that barring chords on it seemed a bit more difficult than on my old guitar, but I’m happy to have learned something new!

Anyone have experience with this? Just out of curiosity, I looked it up and it seems I need a Truss Rod adjustment. I didn’t even know there was a slot under my guitar where you could put an Alan key

That must of been some experience! You played well too! I'm not into getting my guitars written on, but Tommy did a nice job of it.

I haven't read everyone else's post in this thread, but a guitar usually needs a setup after its been purchased. Its a 3 way reconciliation of neck relief (what TE showed you), nut slot depth and the saddle height. It's not brain surgery, but the person who is doing it should have more than a clue on how to do it.

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by Perro

This is only my second guitar I have bought. Been playing an old Dreadnaught Takamine for probably 15 years on and off before I decided to drop some money on this one, since I was finally at a place in my life where I could afford to. A majority of the research I did was on brands/models that fit my style of playing. In none of that research time did I ever really think about setup of an acoustic, I thought that once I got it that it was good to go out of the case...

I'd bet that's the case for a lot of people. I played an old beater for 30 years and concentrated on playing, not the technical details of the guitar. It was only after I joined the AGF that I discovered all that stuff.