The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #121  
Old 10-17-2021, 08:32 AM
Mdfire Mdfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ireland
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmeister View Post
Hi Mdfire, I actually sent an email to NUX today to try to get some clarification on this and to see if what I did was "proper" or if there is different correct way to do this. Guessing you may have accidentally saved and changed one of your preset IR's, which is what I did. Hopefully they give an answer in the next day or so. Will post and let everyone know what they say.

~Stratmeister
Thank you. Yes that is exactly what i did. Just to confirm ive just tried the firmware update and that does not do a factory reset.
__________________
Acoustics
Murphy Custom
Lowden O35
Epiphone Inspired by Gibson Hummingbird

Electrics
Pensa Custom Shop MK90
Squire Classic Vibe 50s Stratocaster

Amp
Bose L1 Pro 8

Effects
Neural DSP Quad Cortex
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 10-17-2021, 09:11 AM
sirdoh sirdoh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 21
Default

so....... If I understand this box correctly; you sample a guitar using a condenser mic, it saves it as an IR, then any guitar you play after that sounds like the original?

What about for an instrument that I don't own? I have a Cavaquinho (Which is like this):-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMxuwqWmZ0

I own an acoustic Cavaquinho but it not the best. The one I want a preamp for is a solid neck with a piezo. Would the Optima be the right choice or should I go for the Sansamp Para DI which is all analogue and eq based?
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 10-17-2021, 10:22 AM
Mdfire Mdfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ireland
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdoh View Post
so....... If I understand this box correctly; you sample a guitar using a condenser mic, it saves it as an IR, then any guitar you play after that sounds like the original?

What about for an instrument that I don't own? I have a Cavaquinho (Which is like this):-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMxuwqWmZ0

I own an acoustic Cavaquinho but it not the best. The one I want a preamp for is a solid neck with a piezo. Would the Optima be the right choice or should I go for the Sansamp Para DI which is all analogue and eq based?
I dont think it works like that in practice. If you are using one of the stock IR's on the pedal, how they sound will depend on how close the source guitar matches yours. Lots of variables such as tone woods and pickups.

If you capture a recording of your guitar on the pedal, then what is output will more closely resemble your guitar if it was mic'd rather than the piezo sound.
__________________
Acoustics
Murphy Custom
Lowden O35
Epiphone Inspired by Gibson Hummingbird

Electrics
Pensa Custom Shop MK90
Squire Classic Vibe 50s Stratocaster

Amp
Bose L1 Pro 8

Effects
Neural DSP Quad Cortex
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 10-17-2021, 10:23 AM
Mdfire Mdfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ireland
Posts: 34
Default

One thing that confused me a bit about this pedal is the display. Sometimes it displays the presets and other times it displays the IRs. Does anyone have an explanation for this and how to engage one or the other?
__________________
Acoustics
Murphy Custom
Lowden O35
Epiphone Inspired by Gibson Hummingbird

Electrics
Pensa Custom Shop MK90
Squire Classic Vibe 50s Stratocaster

Amp
Bose L1 Pro 8

Effects
Neural DSP Quad Cortex

Last edited by Mdfire; 10-19-2021 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 10-17-2021, 10:51 AM
Stratmeister Stratmeister is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdoh View Post
so....... If I understand this box correctly; you sample a guitar using a condenser mic, it saves it as an IR, then any guitar you play after that sounds like the original?

What about for an instrument that I don't own? I have a Cavaquinho (Which is like this):-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMxuwqWmZ0

I own an acoustic Cavaquinho but it not the best. The one I want a preamp for is a solid neck with a piezo. Would the Optima be the right choice or should I go for the Sansamp Para DI which is all analogue and eq based?
Well, to say that it makes “any instrument” sound like the instrument the IR was made from would be a very broad statement. Such as you simply aren’t going to get an acoustic guitar to sound just like a banjo. That is simply not what IR’s or other IR loader pedals such as the Tonedexter, Two Notes Torpedo, Fishman Aura Spectrum, or L.R. Baggs Voiceprint, are trying to accomplish. It’s not a one size fits all. No matter what they say you are certainly not going to get a stock Stratocaster to sound like Martin HD 28. Now with that being said, it is much more reasonable to say that it does a very good job at making instruments of the same type to sound like the IR. Such as getting one acoustic guitar to sound like another, or getting one mandolin to sound like another, or even to get the sound of a particular cabinet for electric player’s for instance. The real goal here with this pedal and the pedals above is to try and reproduce the natural sound of the instrument. That may be in a live situation or for recording either one. The reason is that it in live situations is not usually feasible to use a microphone to mic your acoustic due to the inherent feedback problems and bleed over from other instruments on stage. In a recording situation you may not own high quality condenser microphones or may not own microphones at all for that matter. The other big thing, and the reason I am using. Is to help eliminate the terrible sound you get using typical acoustic pickups. Replacing or blending the tonal characteristics of your terrible sounding piezo, magnetic, or transducer pickup with an IR that sounds like a mic’d instrument is game changing. In your case I would say it would very feasible to get the natural sound of your Cavaquinho by making an IR of it or using an IR made from another.

These are only some of the benefits of using IR’s and there are many more. I would suggest looking at Cuki79’s work that has been done relating to this. You can find that here: http://acousticir.free.fr/
And maybe he can come on and explain better to you what I am trying to say. If you have a decent computer and recording software (many free good DAW’s out there) then you can actually try all of this for free at home before you decide to buy a pedal etc.

Hope this helps….Stratmeister
__________________
Acoustics
2000 NEX Takamine ESF40C Santa Fe
73' Sekova Dreadnought
Electrics
82' Gibson Les Paul Custom
66' Fender Mustang
85' Fender MIJ Stratocaster
2006 Fender Telecaster (Swamp Ash)
92' B.C Rich Ironbird
Amps & Cabs
Mesa Boogie DC3 Head
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Slant Half Back Cab
Marshall 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 10-17-2021, 11:01 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmeister View Post
Well, to say that it makes “any instrument” sound like the instrument the IR was made from would be a very broad statement. Such as you simply aren’t going to get an acoustic guitar to sound just like a banjo. That is simply not what IR’s or other IR loader pedals such as the Tonedexter, Two Notes Torpedo, Fishman Aura Spectrum, or L.R. Baggs Voiceprint, are trying to accomplish. It’s not a one size fits all. No matter what they say you are certainly not going to get a stock Stratocaster to sound like Martin HD 28. Now with that being said, it is much more reasonable to say that it does a very good job at making instruments of the same type to sound like the IR. Such as getting one acoustic guitar to sound like another, or getting one mandolin to sound like another, or even to get the sound of a particular cabinet for electric player’s for instance. The real goal here with this pedal and the pedals above is to try and reproduce the natural sound of the instrument. That may be in a live situation or for recording either one. The reason is that it in live situations is not usually feasible to use a microphone to mic your acoustic due to the inherent feedback problems and bleed over from other instruments on stage. In a recording situation you may not own high quality condenser microphones or may not own microphones at all for that matter. The other big thing, and the reason I am using. Is to help eliminate the terrible sound you get using typical acoustic pickups. Replacing or blending the tonal characteristics of your terrible sounding piezo, magnetic, or transducer pickup with an IR that sounds like a mic’d instrument is game changing. In your case I would say it would very feasible to get the natural sound of your Cavaquinho by making an IR of it or using an IR made from another.

These are only some of the benefits of using IR’s and there are many more. I would suggest looking at Cuki79’s work that has been done relating to this. You can find that here: http://acousticir.free.fr/
And maybe he can come on and explain better to you what I am trying to say. If you have a decent computer and recording software (many free good DAW’s out there) then you can actually try all of this for free at home before you decide to buy a pedal etc.

Hope this helps….Stratmeister
Here's the problem... Unlike hall reverbs or guitar speaker cabinets, the IR to make a pickup sound like a mic is calculated, not measured.

Once you get started calculating there are a myriad of choices to be made. Thus ToneDexter, Cuki, jf45ir, etc. don't sound the same.

But they all start with a correlated sample of the pickup and a mic. Since the sample has to be exactly recorded at the same time you can't easily use this approach to make one type of guitar or instrument, sound like a different one. With some hand waving (like generating an IR for a drastically over built acoustic guitar) you might get something useful for that same pickup on a solid body electric. And that is the general gist of IRs for transformative, rather than just sound more like a mic, applications.

Also, while you might be happy with a stock IR downloaded for your instrument given it was generated with the same pickup you have, I think a custom IR will generally sound much better and you don't need a great mic.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 10-17-2021, 11:01 AM
Stratmeister Stratmeister is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdfire View Post
One thing that confused me a bit about this pedal is the display. Sometimes it displays the presents and other times it displays the IRs. Does anyone have an explanation for this and how to engage one or the other?
That is explained in the manual but barely. Manual is not to good at all. In manual mode you see the preset IR’s such as HD28, D45 etc. In preset mode you will see Pre-amp presets such as Travis, Warm etc.
To switch between the two modes you press the IR foot switch and the AMP foot switch at the same time. I asked about this in the email I just sent to them requesting a bit of clarification on how these work as well. Also I asked if it is even possible to accidentally overwrite the preset IR’s because if so this isn’t good, hence the whole reason I want to know what if and how you can reset to factory defualts. I love the D45 IR and don’t want to loose it.
__________________
Acoustics
2000 NEX Takamine ESF40C Santa Fe
73' Sekova Dreadnought
Electrics
82' Gibson Les Paul Custom
66' Fender Mustang
85' Fender MIJ Stratocaster
2006 Fender Telecaster (Swamp Ash)
92' B.C Rich Ironbird
Amps & Cabs
Mesa Boogie DC3 Head
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Slant Half Back Cab
Marshall 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 10-17-2021, 11:07 AM
Stratmeister Stratmeister is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Here's the problem... Unlike hall reverbs or guitar speaker cabinets, the IR to make a pickup sound like a mic is calculated, not measured.

Once you get started calculating there are a myriad of choices to be made. Thus ToneDexter, Cuki, jf45ir, etc. don't sound the same.

But they all start with a correlated sample of the pickup and a mic. Since the sample has to be exactly recorded at the same time you can't easily use this approach to make one type of guitar or instrument, sound like a different one. With some hand waving (like generating an IR for a drastically over built acoustic guitar) you might get something useful for that same pickup on a solid body electric. And that is the general gist of IRs for transformative, rather than just sound more like a mic, applications.

Also, while you might be happy with a stock IR downloaded for your instrument given it was generated with the same pickup you have, I think a custom IR will generally sound much better and you don't need a great mic.
Thank You JonFields, You said what I tried to but didn't have the knowledge in a few lines.
__________________
Acoustics
2000 NEX Takamine ESF40C Santa Fe
73' Sekova Dreadnought
Electrics
82' Gibson Les Paul Custom
66' Fender Mustang
85' Fender MIJ Stratocaster
2006 Fender Telecaster (Swamp Ash)
92' B.C Rich Ironbird
Amps & Cabs
Mesa Boogie DC3 Head
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Slant Half Back Cab
Marshall 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 10-17-2021, 11:19 AM
Stratmeister Stratmeister is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Default Voice chat? Opinions....

Hi, I am willing to set up a samll private free to all Discord channel for acoustic discussion such as this if anyone is interested. I can even set up sub channel's inside the main channel for General discussion, IR, etc. or have the whole channel dedicated for just one thing such as IR. I just deleted an old channel I had for gaming and don't mind doing it. Would make it easy to collaborate or share thoughts.

Let me know if there is any interest..........

~Stratmeister
__________________
Acoustics
2000 NEX Takamine ESF40C Santa Fe
73' Sekova Dreadnought
Electrics
82' Gibson Les Paul Custom
66' Fender Mustang
85' Fender MIJ Stratocaster
2006 Fender Telecaster (Swamp Ash)
92' B.C Rich Ironbird
Amps & Cabs
Mesa Boogie DC3 Head
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Slant Half Back Cab
Marshall 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 10-17-2021, 11:44 AM
Mdfire Mdfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ireland
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmeister View Post
That is explained in the manual but barely. Manual is not to good at all. In manual mode you see the preset IR’s such as HD28, D45 etc. In preset mode you will see Pre-amp presets such as Travis, Warm etc.
To switch between the two modes you press the IR foot switch and the AMP foot switch at the same time. I asked about this in the email I just sent to them requesting a bit of clarification on how these work as well. Also I asked if it is even possible to accidentally overwrite the preset IR’s because if so this isn’t good, hence the whole reason I want to know what if and how you can reset to factory defualts. I love the D45 IR and don’t want to loose it.
So are the presets a saving of certain eq parameters with an IR?
__________________
Acoustics
Murphy Custom
Lowden O35
Epiphone Inspired by Gibson Hummingbird

Electrics
Pensa Custom Shop MK90
Squire Classic Vibe 50s Stratocaster

Amp
Bose L1 Pro 8

Effects
Neural DSP Quad Cortex
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 10-17-2021, 12:26 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdoh View Post
What about for an instrument that I don't own?
There are few examples of that. Fishman calls it Image Casting for example.

Basically, the Fender Acoustasonic works this way.


Fishman captured IR from dread, OM... then they make the acoustasonic sounds like those. Note that is not "as easy as" capturing and play. In an ideal world you have to remove the "character" from the acoustasonic before applying the IR...

In the electric guitar world, an Italian company made the SIM1 XT+


If you read the patent you will find they do more than just apply an IR previously captured from another guitar. They actually "shape" the envelop of the sound in order to add or remove sustain for example.

That's typically part of the "character" removing I was refering to. If you want a Telecaster to sound like a Les Paul... You will need extra sustain. So you need to shape the envelop so the note actually sustains.

1) IR will EQ
2) IR will adjust phase so the attack of the string feels right.
3) IR can add a "reverby tail" but not actual "sustain".
4) transient and envelop shaping can help in this case. ex: SIM1 XT+
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 10-17-2021, 01:24 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Having recently spent quite a bit of time with a Jazzmaster Acoustasonic at the local GC, it is IMO a great performance tool but not in the same class as a real acoustic guitar into a matching ToneDexter IR (WaveMap).

When I switch through the various guitar models, I can hear a difference, I can pick out a favorite, but at no point do I think I am hearing the real thing amplified.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 10-18-2021, 03:32 PM
Stratmeister Stratmeister is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdfire View Post
Thank you. Yes that is exactly what i did. Just to confirm ive just tried the firmware update and that does not do a factory reset.
Hi Mdfire, I have received an email back from they're support. Below is the question I asked and the response from them.

My question:
Hi, I recently purchased the Optima Air and am pleased but have had a few problems. I have been talking with others that own it as well and we all have the same question. Is there a way to reset this pedal back to factory defaults? And if so how? It seems that all of us at some point have accidentally saved without selecting a new location to save it to while in manual mode which completely changed the sound of the factory default IR. Does this overwrite the default IR? Directions for the unit don't really explain well how this works and we all want the default IR's back as they are very good. For me the only solution I saw that seemed to work was that I simply updated the firmware again and it seemed to reset it back to defaults but I'm not totally sure if it did or not.
Is this the way to do this or is there another proper and correct way to do it? Is there a way to reset to factory defaults at all?

They're response:
Good day and thanks for getting in touch.

# Restore the factory IR profiles:
1. Updating the firmware as you've figured it out.
(This works when you completely lost track, and wanted to start over.)
2. Use the revert icon, if the factory IR is overwritten, you'll see a revert icon on the editor software. Press this icon once, factory IR will be restored.

# Pre- amp presets
Answer: All presets can be overwritten, those are presets made by our product manager.

Let us know if you have any further questions. :-)


If I had no results Mdfire I would email them. The email info is: [email protected]
By the way the revert icon also works if you change one of the factory preset. I personally don't care about the pre-amp presets as I prefer to set those on the fly in manual mode.

Hope this helps

~Stratmeister
__________________
Acoustics
2000 NEX Takamine ESF40C Santa Fe
73' Sekova Dreadnought
Electrics
82' Gibson Les Paul Custom
66' Fender Mustang
85' Fender MIJ Stratocaster
2006 Fender Telecaster (Swamp Ash)
92' B.C Rich Ironbird
Amps & Cabs
Mesa Boogie DC3 Head
Mesa Boogie 4x12 Slant Half Back Cab
Marshall 2x12 Cab
Fender Blues Deluxe

Last edited by Stratmeister; 10-18-2021 at 03:39 PM. Reason: typo's
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 10-19-2021, 01:36 AM
Mdfire Mdfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ireland
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmeister View Post
Hi Mdfire, I have received an email back from they're support. Below is the question I asked and the response from them.

My question:
Hi, I recently purchased the Optima Air and am pleased but have had a few problems. I have been talking with others that own it as well and we all have the same question. Is there a way to reset this pedal back to factory defaults? And if so how? It seems that all of us at some point have accidentally saved without selecting a new location to save it to while in manual mode which completely changed the sound of the factory default IR. Does this overwrite the default IR? Directions for the unit don't really explain well how this works and we all want the default IR's back as they are very good. For me the only solution I saw that seemed to work was that I simply updated the firmware again and it seemed to reset it back to defaults but I'm not totally sure if it did or not.
Is this the way to do this or is there another proper and correct way to do it? Is there a way to reset to factory defaults at all?

They're response:
Good day and thanks for getting in touch.

# Restore the factory IR profiles:
1. Updating the firmware as you've figured it out.
(This works when you completely lost track, and wanted to start over.)
2. Use the revert icon, if the factory IR is overwritten, you'll see a revert icon on the editor software. Press this icon once, factory IR will be restored.

# Pre- amp presets
Answer: All presets can be overwritten, those are presets made by our product manager.

Let us know if you have any further questions. :-)


If I had no results Mdfire I would email them. The email info is: [email protected]
By the way the revert icon also works if you change one of the factory preset. I personally don't care about the pre-amp presets as I prefer to set those on the fly in manual mode.

Hope this helps

~Stratmeister
thanks for this, will give it ago
__________________
Acoustics
Murphy Custom
Lowden O35
Epiphone Inspired by Gibson Hummingbird

Electrics
Pensa Custom Shop MK90
Squire Classic Vibe 50s Stratocaster

Amp
Bose L1 Pro 8

Effects
Neural DSP Quad Cortex
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 10-21-2021, 01:02 PM
ckalinec ckalinec is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16
Default

Hey guys.

So I've been using the Optima Air for a few months now and overall I'm a pretty big fan. Made my own IRs for each instrument which certainly made a big difference. However I'm running in to some issues with noise.

Has anyone else noticed that the unit itself seems to have a very large noise floor? we bought one for our church and some of the guy who have lower output pickups that need to crank the gain internally on the unit seem to raise a ton of noise. And not just a little. A pretty significant amount. Anyone else run in to similar problems and found a good solution?

I just bought the parts to build a simple little pre amp/boost to lift the signal a good bit going in to the Nux which I believe will likely fix the issue we're running in to.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=