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  #16  
Old 04-21-2019, 09:24 PM
Kojo27 Kojo27 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawmow View Post
Interesting : thinner stings on .ADG.. strings, with normal strings on detuned strings E...BE in DADGAD. That makes sense !
Thanks !
I'm trying to figure out what Cleartone String Co. might be up to with their Grand Light set... maybe the same thing.

I think the gauges are something close to:

1. .013
2. .017
3. .025
4. .032
5. .042
6. .053

But for the low E... ??? You know, I'm in love with this set because I've always substituted a .014 for a .013 in a regular set of .013s, going for a bigger sound - a fatter soloing sound on acoustic archtops. But with the .017 for the B string, then the others being really light, I get a similar feel. :-)
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  #17  
Old 09-25-2021, 03:37 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Martin Retro Monels are hex-core, which is probably not very period-accurate if that's important. Newtone and (IIRC) Kurt Mangan make round-core monel-wound strings, and there are quite a few claims in other sections of this board that they're better than the Martins.

What about the Eartwood Silk & Steel or Thomastik-Infeld Plectrum strings (both 80/20 wrapped), has anyone tried those on a Loar or comparable acoustic archtop?
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  #18  
Old 09-26-2021, 12:22 AM
radiofm74 radiofm74 is offline
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I suggest reading this little gem: https://www.campusfive.com/swingguit...ng-guitar.html

If you're to play unamplified in the style of the 20s-40s, I'd say your pick is between Monel and Bronze, both roundwound. My own Loar LH-700 is strung with Martin retro 12s because it is equipped with a DeArmond FHC and bronze strings do not balance well with that pickup. On my other archtops I have GHS vintage bronze 12s. They sound very nice acoustically and they also sound very well and well-balanced through my Rhythm Chief pickups.
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  #19  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:20 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofm74 View Post
I suggest reading this little gem: https://www.campusfive.com/swingguit...ng-guitar.html

...My own Loar LH-700 is strung with Martin retro 12s because it is equipped with a DeArmond FHC and bronze strings do not balance well with that pickup...
FYI he used to be an AGF member, and posted with some regularity here on the Archtop subforum; if you haven't heard his YouTube clips he's also one heluva player, and one of the very few born after the Eisenhower Administration who really "gets it" when it comes to acoustic archtops...

FWIW I'd try a set of monel 13's at your next string change - more acoustic volume and more signal to the pickup...
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  #20  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:23 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Personally I'd not be not particularly interested in recreating the old sound - in fact, what I'm really dreaming of is a nylon-stringed archtop and/or a contemporary instrument that builds upon the strengths of the archtop design but isn't intended to be used for 1 or 2 particular styles or techniques only (I like the sound a heavy, esp. wooden pick can give but in my heart I'm a fleshy-fingerpick person.)

(I'd just have to win the lottery, or maybe ask what's the name of that Chinese company again that makes "cheap" but good (enough) archtops..)
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
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  #21  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:26 AM
radiofm74 radiofm74 is offline
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Hey Steve! Jonathan Stout is one of my idols … been a fan of his "full band" output for a long time but am also thrilled he came out with chord melody solo guitar records recently, and his small combo "Close Shave Quartet". There are very few guitarists around with his command of swing language (and swing-to-bop, but he'd be the first to deny it perhaps )

At the time I had tried 13s too but I thought 12s were almost as loud and more comfortable to play. Coming from someone with your experience, the suggestion carries a lot of weight so I'll try at next string change. Unsure I want to do that to my '38 DeLuxe although of course she was built to withstand a lot more… but she's 83 now… hmm…

Keep swingin'!
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  #22  
Old 09-26-2021, 03:04 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofm74 View Post
Unsure I want to do that to my '38 DeLuxe although of course she was built to withstand a lot more… but she's 83 now… hmm…
Remember that most of the famous, ahem, luthier-quality concert violins were built for A=415Hz (or so) and were converted for A=440Hz (possibly more like 430-435 actually) in the early 19th century. Nowadays concert pitch keeps creeping up and these instruments still endure. Not suggesting that early 20thC guitar builders were in the same league as those Italian luthiers (Antonio & Co would be spinning in their graves), but the load increase from tuning up over half a tone PLUS using a much higher bridge is considerably more important than going from 12s to 13s.
On the other hand, instruments can react unexpectedly to changes in gauge (sound wise). My own mini jumbo is built for something like 11-54, definitely sounds better with a 12 E1. It lights up with 13s when using a (heavy/wooden) pick, but sounds muffled fingerpicked even with Retro 11s or Earthwood Silk & Steel Soft, to the player at least. But with the Thomastik AC111 it really opened up when fingerpicking, even for me as a player, and as far as I can tell it does sound louder from the listener position too. That was really unexpected because it doesn't appear to be particularly lightly built.

I saw mention somewhere that Martin Retros give a higher load while being more flexible aka easier to play. What's the math behind that? Copper is slightly heavier and denser than nickel, zinc (the other ingredient in brass) is considerably heavier but less dense than nickel. Monel can contain a bunch of other ingredients so I don't dare to predict which of the 2 alloys is the denser/heavier one...

BTW, I also saw a remark about an archtop being short-scale compared to a flattop (IIRC it applied to a Loar 6x0 or 700), suggesting that it requires a heavier gauge of strings to reach the same tension at tune. I thought the same about my resonator (635mm from saddle to nut) and it's probably true that the frets being closer to each other helps making higher tension strings more playable. Recently I realised that I forgot that the part of the string between saddle and stringholder is under the same tension as the part on the other side of the saddle, and thus contributes to the actual string tension.
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
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  #23  
Old 09-26-2021, 05:36 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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Monel's certainly have their fair share of fans here.

They're not bad, just not the sound I personally want. They sounded like used PB strings & got muddier from there.

For my strictly fingerstyle chord melody playing. I like Elixir nanoweb strings.

I've got the acoustic version Elixirs on my Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop & the electric version on my Godin jazz.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2021, 05:08 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
you shouldn't have any difficulties fingerpicking the standard 13-56 MM13 set on a short-scale guitar like your Loar
But is it? The saddle-to-nut scale length may be shorter than on a similar-sized flattop, but AFAIK you have to add the string segment between saddle and tailpiece to the total length that goes into the equation that relates pitch to length, mass and tension. It's like using a capo, and seen in that light I think the played part of the strings should feel a bit stiffer.

Something else. My mini-jumbo isn't exactly a lightly built guitar as far as I can tell. According to Godin, it's designed for 12s, possibly13s but not more. I'll admit, it sounds strong and powerful with 13s, but you need a pick get the sound out of it - with fingerstyle it'll sound muted. I've long played it with 11.5 (or 12) to 52s, but even then got that somewhat muted sound. Until I put on a set of Plectrums, which have 11,14 E1 and B, but relatively much lighter wound strings. With those I finally and paradoxally have the impression I'm getting the amount of sound I want out of the guitar (though the low E is probably a tad too weak). It's as if these lighter strings allowed the top to open up, breathe.
Couldn't something similar happen on an archtop, that you get better results when fingerpicking on lighter strings?
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2021, 11:12 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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If I were buying a brand new Loar tomorrow, I'd start with some 80/20's, .012 gauge, and I'd play the absolute daylights out of it as much as I could in the first week. Bash it hard, with a thick pick, play some swing tunes, folk songs, whatever, but play it hard. Break those strings in and get that top vibrating.

Once the strings calm down a bit and the guitar has warmed up, it'll be a lot more inviting to fingerpick. You might find when you first get a new one, it's almost impossible to play it quietly...but they do become more dynamic in time.
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  #26  
Old 11-19-2021, 11:57 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Yeah, if and when I get one it'll be exercised as if it were a new loudspeaker, whether it's new or used (rather the latter given that I'm partial to a 650 ). I've got an Ultravox album (from their come-back live tour) that works great for shaking things loose, I find

I'll put on a set of broken-in 80/20s though since I happen to have one lying around.
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
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