Death grip....

[Deliberate1]

I am about 6 weeks into my fingerstyle deep dive, and about two years into my guitar journey.
My right hand is getting fairly competent. But I find with the coordination of both hands I can get a bit "tense" And then I compensate by over gripping with the left. And that just slows everything down, and is fatiguing. This also happens, in particular, when I attempt a thumb fret - a move that is not comfortable for me. I tend to strangle the neck and contort the hand in a futile attempt to get more "leverage." I find that I also tend to lift the left shoulder.
I have to learn to relax that arm and hand. Were it just so simple to just say "relax." But, not so much.
Any suggestions for techniques to relax the hand/arm would be very mcuh appreciated.
David

[kliend]

I find myself doing the same thing...

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by kliend

I find myself doing the same thing...

Condolences, mate.
David

[davidbeinct]

Try smiling while you play. It gives you something to concentrate on that is mindless and you know how to do and takes your mind off the death grip. I briefly tried it and it works but it’s hard to make yourself keep doing it.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

Try smiling while you play. It gives you something to concentrate on that is mindless and you know how to do and takes your mind off the death grip. I briefly tried it and it works but it’s hard to make yourself keep doing it.

Great advice, David. I am smiling right now, in fact. Though I have no guitar in hand.
David

[Dogma]

I am about the same length of time into my guitar journey as you are and I find I have the opposite problem - in a way. Though I am not working on finger style technique, I find that I death grip with my picking hand. No idea why and I don't notice it until I stop playing and realize that my right hand is all tensed up. I have a soft but elastic brace which helps, but that won't help in your case. Or might it? Let me see if that kind of brace would mess with fretting.

[TBman]

I played finger style for a few years before I ran into a tune that needed a thumb wrap. That took me a while to get down. I actually haven't played a tune that requires it in some time now, but I remember I had to learn to hug the neck with a relaxed hand. I have slabs for hands and not they are not exactly like a piano player's so it took me a while to get there.

I suggest practicing doing thumb wraps outside of the flow of a tune - make up exercises that include chords with a wrap and chords without, changing them back and forth.

[hatamoto]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I am about 6 weeks into my fingerstyle deep dive, and about two years into my guitar journey.
My right hand is getting fairly competent. But I find with the coordination of both hands I can get a bit "tense" And then I compensate by over gripping with the left. And that just slows everything down, and is fatiguing. This also happens, in particular, when I attempt a thumb fret - a move that is not comfortable for me. I tend to strangle the neck and contort the hand in a futile attempt to get more "leverage." I find that I also tend to lift the left shoulder.
I have to learn to relax that arm and hand. Were it just so simple to just say "relax." But, not so much.
Any suggestions for techniques to relax the hand/arm would be very mcuh appreciated.
David

Whenever I stumble upon these challenges that involve coordinating left and right, I slow things down. Yeah cliche, but it works, and I actually go down twice in tempo.

You may have some dexterity issues, so I may go about this two ways:

1. I would probably do some warmups like chromatic scales: 1234, 4321, 3214, etc. for finger strength + practicing coordinating it with the right hand. I think the key to relaxing is mindset and starting with the simplest form possible. You could very well even start with just one fretting finger at a time, pluck it and observe how your body responds to it. The key is to fret the least amount of force possible to the point that if you let go even more, it's gonna start to buzz. It's that delicate. Do this for about 1 minute or 2 before you even start. If you start with the proper relaxed mindset, things go more smoothly. Harder to do in practice but that's what we guitarists mostly struggle with. And yeah, don't forget to breathe.

2. You may also practice the chords by itself without the right hand without doing the fingerpicking. Just practice transitioning it as whole beats, then go faster over time.

3. Then divide the song by bars. Pick the ones you are struggling with and do it over and over. I once watched a video by Tim Pierce, a session guitarist where he talked about doing the same lick over and over 300 times if he had trouble with it. The key is reps and quality reps.

4. Lastly try to work with a metronome as you do this and go faster over time. Start at the slowest possible groove you can do very easily, then every 50-100 or so attempts go faster by 5-10bpm until you can do that passage in time then attempt the whole song again. Rinse and repeat. Of course break it up! Don't expect to do 100 in shot.

5. Take lots of breaks.

With the thumb wrap, if you really can't do it then I don't think you need to, but the trick is not to grip it so you have room to fret with the side of your thumb. You don't want the center of your thumb to fret it unless you have super giant hands. There will be some space with the heel of your palm to the underside of the neck.

Have you tried barring it? You can always do it that way.

My 2 cents. This is how I tackle hard passages, licks etc.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by hatamoto

Whenever I stumble upon these challenges that involve coordinating left and right, I slow things down.

OP here. Thank you very kindly for the suggestions. Very sensible.
David

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I am about 6 weeks into my fingerstyle deep dive, and about two years into my guitar journey.
My right hand is getting fairly competent. But I find with the coordination of both hands I can get a bit "tense" And then I compensate by over gripping with the left. And that just slows everything down, and is fatiguing. This also happens, in particular, when I attempt a thumb fret - a move that is not comfortable for me. I tend to strangle the neck and contort the hand in a futile attempt to get more "leverage." I find that I also tend to lift the left shoulder.
I have to learn to relax that arm and hand. Were it just so simple to just say "relax." But, not so much.
Any suggestions for techniques to relax the hand/arm would be very mcuh appreciated.
David

I'd echo hatamoto's advice, especially - "The key is to fret the least amount of force possible to the point that if you let go even more, it's gonna start to buzz".

Firstly, get the fretting finger as close up behind the fret as you can. Not on top of the fret, obviously, but not too far down between the frets either (the further from the fret, the more pressure you need). Ideally you should not see any fretboard between the fret and your finger.

Then press the string down slowly towards the fret. Let it just touch the fret. If the string still sounds dead or buzzes when you play it, press just a little harder - but don't force the string down to the wood. It only needs to be held to the fretwire.

Obviously you can't pay this much attention when playing, but it's an essential exercise to train your hands into the minimum pressure required.

You do have to be positive with both hands. This is the tricky part. You have to exert a fair amount of confident attack (at least with the right hand), and your fret hand does need to be totally in sync, with an equally confident grip. The hard part is not to allow "confident" to become "death grip"!

The advice to play things with fret hand only - hatamoto's point 2 - is very good for this confidence and synchronization of both hands. Not just for chords. Try doing it with lines and patterns, scales, anything - but do it to a metronome, without using the right hand at all. It trains your fret hand to not just hold the notes, but to play in time - which is critical.

It's a different exercise from the fret pressure one, because that's slower and doesn't need to be in time. But both are really good for developing control in the fretting hand.

[Brent Hutto]

I recently started taking guitar lessons and my teacher provided a few simple warmup exercises that I do whenever I sit down to practice.

I added one more "warmup" of my own and that's playing a couple different chord shapes with my fingers literally just resting on the strings. I start playing a slow arpeggio and of course it makes no sound because the fingers are damping the strings. Then one finger at a time I gradually press down just barely enough for the note to ringclearly.

Then for me the tricky part is doing it with the next finger without also pressing down harder on the finger that's already playing cleanly. Sometimes it takes me just a minute to get the feel of minimal pressure. Or if I'm having a tense day it might take three or four minutes of doing that to relax and get it right on, say, first a C-major then a E-major chord.

Most useful three or four minutes of the day, for me. Really helps with the left-hand death grip tendency.

[srick]

I just took a great warmup class with Adam Rafferty online, which hopefully, he will repeat. One pearl that I had never heard was this: Pull the guitar into your left side using your biceps (same action as a curl). This takes a lot of stress off of your hand and allows it to relax. Similarly, use a foot stand or a strap so that your hand does not have to support the neck at the same time.

I’ve had the same problem for years and am gradually improving. It obviously takes a lot of mindfulness too.

Best,

Rick

[Deliberate1]

Great suggestions, guys. I will try them all.
Srick, you wrote: "Pull the guitar into your left side using your biceps (same action as a curl). This takes a lot of stress off of your hand and allows it to relax."
I am trying to picture what that looks like (granted, wihout a guitar in my hands). Is the idea to squeeze the guitar body between the upper arm and the torso to take the weight off the left arm.

Which leads me to another question regarding the support of the guitar. How much of its weight should be born by the left hand? My gut tells me the ideal would be none, so that the hand is fully free of the weight and can move unrestricted. If so, is that the reason those who play strapped while seated do so?
David

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Great suggestions, guys. I will try them all.
Srick, you wrote: "Pull the guitar into your left side using your biceps (same action as a curl). This takes a lot of stress off of your hand and allows it to relax."
I am trying to picture what that looks like (granted, wihout a guitar in my hands). Is the idea to squeeze the guitar body between the upper arm and the torso to take the weight off the left arm.

Yes. You brace the guitar with the right arm against your torso.

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Which leads me to another question regarding the support of the guitar. How much of its weight should be born by the left hand? My gut tells me the ideal would be none, so that the hand is fully free of the weight and can move unrestricted.

Your gut is correct!

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

If so, is that the reason those who play strapped while seated do so?
David

Yes, but you shouldn't need a strap.

In classical left-leg position, the guitar is held securely between both legs, as well as braced against the body by the right arm. That's the reason for the rather awkward-feeling position: it fixed the guitar in position, leaving both hands free to do their jobs. (Remember the right hand doesn't strum in classical guitar, except certain rasgueado techniques - i.e., the forearm doesn't need to swing free, as least not as much as when strumming in folk, blues, pop and rock styles,

With the guitar on the right leg, it's easier for the neck to swing around a little - back and forward if not up and down. That's why various devices or techniques can help - most of them involving raising the guitar, so it wedges more firmly under the right arm. One is a strap, although personally I find that still allows too much movement in the neck. Another is a footstool under the right foot. Another is a "neck up" device which sits on the thigh under the guitar. Some people cross their legs right over left - some with the right ankle on the left knee, which is really effective at immobilising the guitar, but can get uncomfortable after a while.

In all these cases, the neck should be up just a little from horizontal, but nowhere near as high as in classical guitar. Provided your left elbow is at 90 degrees or less, and the left foream is roughly at 90 degrees to the neck (when fretting the middle of the neck) your position is probably fine.

[srick]

JonPR - thank you for beating me to it! My thoughts exactly.

Rick