Is there REALLY a "Martin" sound?

[Lodos]

i would say yes .

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

And if so, then how can that be?
It is a wood box.
With very few parts.
Most of them don't even move.
Almost every living or non-living thing can be copied or cloned.
And yet...
It is a wood box.

it's the build quality, the history, the overall embodied energy.

played an om-35 clone once, it was built by a japanese luthier (or so i was told), same woods and the exact same dimensions, and it really was a great guitar, amazing craftsmanship, but it sounded nothing like the actual martin. i mean it sounded great, but the tones were just different..

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

And if so, then how can that be?
It is a wood box.
With very few parts.
Most of them don't even move.
Almost every living or non-living thing can be copied or cloned.
And yet...
It is a wood box.

This is not a bashing brand thread at all.
I love Martins and am researching my first.

Well, the Martin sound at my price point is bland and disappointing. I always have a play of a Martin in a guitar shop when I get a chance and anything up to the standard series generally fails me (with the occasional exception). I can get very little 'character' from the instruments. They just don't suit ME. I recon I'd get on very well with a 00-18, but buying one is never, ever going to happen. They are just sooo expensive over here in the UK - I really couldn't justify the money for "a wooden box with strings on it".

So I find it best to work on the adage that happiness comes from wanting what you have, not having what you want.

If you are researching for your first Martin, buy from a reputable shop, with a money back guarantee, and get a full set-up done as part of the deal.

Watch out for quality issues (there have been a few posted on this forum recently). I had two new X series guitars delivered to me this summer, both with sunken tops, and I've worked on friends' Martin guitars (one has a D-16, one a D-28 and one a 000-18) and they don't hold their set-ups over time as well as my other friends Yamahas, Seagulls, Tanglewoods etc. You have to be a little more careful with a solid wood Martin as they seem to be more prone to seasonal movement than cheaper, leave out on the stand, guitars. So think about the job you want the guitar to do for you and where it is going to live before splashing out a lot of money on something that may not be fit for YOUR purpose.

But, if you find a Martin guitar that speaks to you - buy it!!!

And, yes, I do think that there is a Martin sound. But in my opinion it lives in the standard series and upward.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I believe with the higher end of what they make anyway, the Martin sound is a big, open, warmer -for want of a better word- tone and playing experience. Personally it's rare for me to think that a nicer Martin sounds too tight, or too bright, or too boxy..

100% agree with this. I have a Martin Ditson 111 and a 00028k 1921 authentic and while very different guitars, they both sound warm and open in their own way. I tried to like Collings, I owned four, but I could never get used to the lack of warmth.

I feel the cheaper Martins are nothing special, better to buy a Blueridge or an Eastman.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by jazzereh

But, wouldn't it make a difference to the sound based on the kind of strings? If someone had lights on, even silk and steel, vs another with mids, that has to affect the sound.

Or is everyone assuming the same kind of strings on any Martin? I don't know 'cause I don't own a Martin so just asking.

In my experience, the cheaper the guitar the more you depend on the strings. On a higher end instrument the sound is very much coming from the wood and the build quality, the strings just get it all vibrating.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

80-90% of a guitars tonal quality comes from how the top is thicknessed and braced. Martin bracing is not the same as Taylors is not the same as Gibsons is not the same as Larrivees, etc. Each builder has their own ideas of how a guitar should sound.

True.

However Martin and the others thickness all tops (for each model) the same, regardless of the individual piece.

"Select spruce" is marketing speak for the one on top of the pile.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by jazzereh

But, wouldn't it make a difference to the sound based on the kind of strings? If someone had lights on, even silk and steel, vs another with mids, that has to affect the sound.

Or is everyone assuming the same kind of strings on any Martin? I don't know 'cause I don't own a Martin so just asking.

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

In my experience, the cheaper the guitar the more you depend on the strings. On a higher end instrument the sound is very much coming from the wood and the build quality, the strings just get it all vibrating.

I would agree with that Malcolm. I use strings and picks to really move the tone around on my guitars (all cheap ones!). Personally, I'm not a fan of 'rich' guitars because I flatpick rather than play fingerstyle - so the expensive 'rich' sounding guitars I have played simply run away with me. I prefer woody and punchy, which luckily means that cheap guitars generally work well for me. In fact a nice dry woody sounding laminated back and sides with few overtones is what I'm after. I really enjoy playing a guitar that I can get a little physical with, without being run over by it!!!!

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

I feel the cheaper Martins are nothing special, better to buy a Blueridge or an Eastman.

Yep. Or go for a Godin (Seagull, Art & Lutherie, Simon and Patrick, Norman) if you want N American made that is not even remotely trying to sound like a Martin but ploughing its own furrow as a workhorse guitar.

[pegleghowell]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

You have to be a little more careful with a solid wood Martin as they seem to be more prone to seasonal movement than cheaper, leave out on the stand, guitars.

I have a `99 00028ec,that I have owned from new,and a `99 om28v I purchased 2nd hand some years ago,both as solid as a rock.No problems at all.
Great action,straight necks,neither has ever had or needed a reset,just beautiful instruments.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by pegleghowell

I have a `99 00028ec,that I have owned from new,and a `99 om28v I purchased 2nd hand some years ago,both as solid as a rock.No problems at all.
Great action,straight necks,neither has ever had or needed a reset,just beautiful instruments.

That's good to hear! Do you keep they 'out' or are they humidity controlled? The ones my friends have are not kept in controlled environments - in fact, I don't know anyone who lives here who keeps any of their guitars in controlled environments.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by RTR

Yes definitely. I like what Norman Blake mentioned at a workshop when asked a similar query. He said some guitars may sound better than a Martin, but nothing sounds like a Martin. That is pretty well the way I feel about it.

So true and some guitars may sound better than a Zager but nothing sounds like a Zager.

[pegleghowell]

In my experience I have not found Martin guitars to be any more susceptible to seasonal variances and shifts than any other brand of guitar I have owned.I have owned several Martins down the years and have two at the moment.Of course,Robin,your experience may differ.

[CoolerKing]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

And if so, then how can that be?
It is a wood box.
With very few parts.
Most of them don't even move.
Almost every living or non-living thing can be copied or cloned.
And yet...
It is a wood box.

This is not a bashing brand thread at all.
I love Martins and am researching my first.

Well, I'd like to think so. I think the "Martin dred" sound is discussed often is perhaps because it was the first 14 fret acoustic instrument in the way that we think, ie with flattened upper bout etc.

I'm personally not too sure about the sonic differences between for example a new Collings and a new Martin. I think they're both excellent guitars. But an old guitar vs a new guitar, at least for me, is different. And therein lies the problem. Old Martins can be found. An "old" Collings" IMHO won't be old until at least age 30, maybe more. Take those numbers and my opinion for that matter with a grain of salt. I'm just saying I think that some of the Martin Sound talk may be in some part a reference to older guitars, which are hard to compare since some are so old there is literally nothing to compare.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by matthewpartrick

Well, I'd like to think so. I think the "Martin dred" sound is discussed often is perhaps because it was the first 14 fret acoustic instrument in the way that we think, ie with flattened upper bout etc.

I'm personally not too sure about the sonic differences between for example a new Collings and a new Martin. I think they're both excellent guitars. But an old guitar vs a new guitar, at least for me, is different. And therein lies the problem. Old Martins can be found. An "old" Collings" IMHO won't be old until at least age 30, maybe more. Take those numbers and my opinion for that matter with a grain of salt. I'm just saying I think that some of the Martin Sound talk may be in some part a reference to older guitars, which are hard to compare since some are so old there is literally nothing to compare.

In my quest to like Collings I bought a 20 year old one in the hope that it would have warmed up a little. Unfortunately it had not and I expect it never will, a much newer high end Martin sounds much warmer.

[Goodallboy]

Yes, and it’s been appropriated by many other companies. Refined by some, expanded by some, and they owe Martin a great deal of credit for their success.

[Zigeuner]

I'm certain that there's a Martin sound. I've often heard it. Listen to the early Doc Watson records, or anything by Tony Rice or any of the other leading artists who play them.

This is further reinforced by the fact that Martin guitars in general are the most-copied of all designs.

Martin sound? There must be or I wouldn't have bought so many of them and upset my dear wife with all of the money I spent on them.

In fairness, there is also a Taylor sound, a Gibson sound and even a Takamine sound.

[caperrob]

I had a Martin GPCPA4 rosewood a few days ago. I sold it to fund a 000-18.

I've been home all morning picking away and I realized something. Although the GPCPA4 is a great guitar, I was always trying different strings and picks to get "that" sound. Oddly enough, the Martin Lifespans ended up being my strings of choice and they came on the 000-18.

What I learned this morning is that the 000-18 sounds amazing with any pick. I can't say the same about strings just yet but I'm sure I can tinker a little. Of course my choice of pick does give my a slightly different dynamic but the fundamental tone remains.

Anyway, for a couch player who does a little jamming and has been chasing that tone, I found it. I also tested dozens of different models over the years and feel that the 000 body is perfect for me. Tone wise, I found my dream guitar.

Martin tone? It floats my boat but to each their own.

Cheers!!