Amplifying your classical guitar

[musictag]

Haven't seen a classical guitarist in concert with an orchestra recently, so I'm a bit behind the times here. With the incredible pick-ups and amps available these days, do most professional classical guitarists now mic their guitars with pick-ups and amps? How about the classical guitarists on this website? Are your classical guitars amped ? If you were going to see Williams, or Parkening or Isben, etc play with an orchestra, would you be upset or concerned if they came on stage and plugged in?

[WeddingGuy]

My (formal) musical training was as a double-bassist. I have played in several orchestras and, from time to time, we'd play a guitar concerto on a concert.

In every instance, the guitarist used some kind of condensor mic in order to be heard--and, If I remember correctly, during rehearsals as well. As a bassist, I always sat a good distance from the soloist and it was always maddening to try to hear them. Listening is just as important for the orchestral musician as for anybody else.

Nobody in my experience used an amp or pickups, however. I'm sure that, for the serious classical players, that will be very slow in coming, if ever. The mics were always running into some kind of "house" system.

I also had the priveledge of hearing a very fine classical double bass soloist a couple of years back with an orchestra. He also had a mic in front of his ax and some kind of amp he was feeding it into.

I can see both sides of the mic/no mic argument. When I was a kid, I was priveledged to see a lot of local music theater. At the time--when I was a kid-- there was always a real band or orchestra in the pit. The singers always sang. How the band sounded and how the singers sounded was exactly what the audience heard. It was exciting!

As a music student, we worked hard to learn to manipulate our (acoustic) instruments in such a way that they would sound pleasing to the audience.

I also spent many of my formative years playing in various rock, jazz, r&b bands. Much of ones sound is determined by how well one understands and uses their "gear". There is an art to it, but it's a different art. It's still (can be) musical, but different.

I've recently gone back to my hometown and seen some very fine productions in the local musical theater. These days, there's some kind of group of maybe two guys working synthesizers and such down in the pit, and the stage performers have the little flesh-toned mics hidden in their hairline or on their cheek. COMPLETELY different sound! I didn't care for it one bit. I thought the whole thing sounded canned--the voices were coming out of speakers and one had to look around the stage to see who was actually singing. All of the natural separation was lost.

Getting back to the question--I wouldn't want to see (name your favorite classical hotshot) play plugged in. I'd like to see them do what they do best--namely, play great acoustic guitar. I wouldn't necessarily want to see Jimmy Hendrix play unplugged, either.

And I think PART of our conundrum with this whole topic is actually... that's right-- Architecture! I've gotten to see some classical orchestras/choirs perform in 800-year-old cathedrals in Germany. Wow! You can hear everything. The reverb is REAL! It's amazing. When these folks were playing fiddles & guitars with gut strings on them, they were even quieter. But, when an attentive audience listens to music in an acoustically "lively" environment, wonderful things happen.

There's a nice, multi-part documentary of John Williams on YT. In one segment, he's giving a recital in some kind of ancient chapel. There's a gallery of maybe 80-100 listeners. THAT'S how I'd like to hear one of those guys. Not in a 2000-seat hall in the states.

And I've gotten to play music myself in some appallingly-bad acoustic environments (a few good ones, too) here in the states. No wonder everybody needs to "amp up"!

fwiw... In the event that this post is sounding too snobbish--I ain't.

I always play with an amp!

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by WeddingGuy

And I think PART of our conundrum with this whole topic is actually... that's right-- Architecture! I've gotten to see some classical orchestras/choirs perform in 800-year-old cathedrals in Germany. Wow! You can hear everything. The reverb is REAL! It's amazing. When these folks were playing fiddles & guitars with gut strings on them, they were even quieter. But, when an attentive audience listens to music in an acoustically "lively" environment, wonderful things happen.

You are so right, this can be a real factor, even in recorded music. Two of my favorite pieces music underscore this. One was Phil Keaggy and Amy Grant doing a Christmas song (don't remember which one off the top of my head. Phil and Amy were on the steps of an old church and the choir was singing from the choir loft inside the church. The physical acoustics made the choir sound angelic.

The second was 'As the Levee Breaks' by Led Zeppelin. Jimmy Page put John Bonhim (sp) in a stairwell then set up the mics at the end of the hallway from the stairwell. Again, the physical acoustics made the sound otherworldly.

Even with recorded or amplified music, the physical acoustics can make a profound difference. (you should hear me sing in my shower )

Jack

[Paultergeist]

I think the world-class players named are typically playing extremely expensive instruments -- such instruments would be considered by many to be compromised by any sort of "installed" mic system. Williams, for example, was playing a Smallman guitar for many years -- those things cost more than some houses. I don't think it would be too likely to see on-board pick-up systems in such guitars.

As for using an external mic -- well, I guess it depends. I would rather hear the guitar "au natural," but if the venue acoustics leave no better option, I would rather hear the guitar via the house PA rather than not hear it at all.

[musictag]

I would usually prefer to see a solo guitarist in a smaller, more intimate venue; however, when they are playing a concerto with an orchestra that often isn't the case. Even if the orchestra is scaling down to play with the soloist, the hall will typically be something that seats @1500 people. Now I haven't seen a guitar recital in many years, but it would be hard given the nature of the instrument and the music to see one performed in a concert hall for 1500 - 1800 people such as Orchestra Hall or the Ordway here in the Twin Cities, despite the wonderful acoustics that Orchestra Hall in particular possesses. The last solo guitarist I saw play was Leo Kottke at the Ordway. Not a really valid comparison, but I'm pretty sure he was not mic'd but plugged in to an amp system. The last time I saw Parkening play, he was with the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra and he too had a small amp on stage with him. Both of these events occurred some time ago, hence my question about where things are today.

I suppose, as Paultergiest suggests, that most of the top flight pro's have very expensive instruments, they might not want to 'compromise' their guitars with on-board pick-ups. On the other hand, I wonder how up and coming stars like Ana Vidovic who have custom built guitars would approach this question. Are they more open to amplification and playing bigger halls?