Does removing the End Pin Jack improve tone?

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Iain1231

I've got a guitar without a pickup. Since I play it mostly on the couch, I am debating if it might sound better removing the end pin Jack. This would create an additional hole, which could theoretically increase volume output and sustain similar to a soundport. What do you think?

Do it & report back.

[Alan Carruth]

First; define 'improve'......

Having done the experiments I'll respond, with a definite maybe.

Yes, removing the end pin jack does create a 'port' in that location. It's small, but it's also a long way from the main sound hole, so it will have an outsized effect on the 'main air' resonant mode. The pitch will rise, and the the guitar will produce more sound at that frequency (and less at the 'old' air resonance pitch). Normally these changes are not audible to listeners out in front of the guitar unless the pitch has shifted onto, or off, a played pitch. In other words, if the original 'main air' pitch was a between the low F# and G on the low E string, and opening up the new port raises it to being right at G, you'd be unlikely to notice it. And even then you probably would not unless the change was made 'on the fly', so you could compare the 'closed' and 'open' sounds immediately.

The new port will also put out some sound at higher frequencies that are not normally heard. These will tend to be most audible to somebody who can look directly into the port, so the player will almost certainly not hear the difference unless the sound is reflected back at them.

All of this will vary from one guitar to another. Ditto players and listeners. Whether you or your friends would notice the change on this guitar is hard to say in advance. Note, too, that they're much more likely to say they hear some effect if they're expecting it; the only way to be fairly certain is to do 'blind' tests.

The bottom line, then, is that it's possible that there will be an audible change. I'd rate it as 'unlikely' in general, but can't rule out that there would be a distinct difference. "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's where the smart money is".

[guitararmy]

One advantage of removing the end jack and not replacing it with a strap pin would be reducing the chance of cracking the rim by dropping the guitar on the end...

[gmel555]

I thought this question might lead to a follow-up question: Does changing the end pin material alter tone (Plastic vs Ebony vs Bone vs Buffalo Horn, etc.)? Alas, everyone stayed on point. Nice job!

[Iain1231]

The UMGF seems to agree that removing/including the end pin seems to make some tonal difference
Well as the above post mentioned, removing it might reduce cracking the rim in the event of an accidental drop
https://umgf.com/endpin-makes-a-tone...ce-t82876.html

[Mike McLenison]

I can attest; if you remove bridge pins, it will severely alter tone. Not sure about end pins.

[Cool555]

I saw your thread very early when you posted it and thought that in AGF, we do get to read many questions that anyone can possibly think of....this is one of them....I'm also one who thinks of such questions....in fact, the exact question you asked. But I figured that the effect to the tone (maybe 1-2%) was so insignificant that it wouldn't make a difference to my ears. I don't think the human ear can detect such a slight difference in tone.

Interesting question also because my Martin 00-15m came with the end pin unattached to the hole at the end of the guitar. It was in a tiny envelope in the guitar case. That's where this question that you asked came to my mind. I decided to leave the hole empty because the ebony end pin was way too large for the hole and IMHO, it wouldn't make any difference in tone to my ears, whether the end pin was there or not.

[Iain1231]

Sounds great! Perhaps by covering it up temporarily, and asking a listener to guess if the cover was on or off would be a good experiment. You never know maybe it might sound just different in a good way

[LyleGorch]

Might hear 1/32 notes more clearly.

[Goodallboy]

If this works, soon we’ll read of a $300 beater with holes in it like Swiss cheese.

I can’t wait!

[Alan Carruth]

Whoops!

In my post I wrote:
"Normally these changes are not audible to listeners out in front of the guitar unless the pitch has shifted onto, or off, a played pitch. In other words, if the original 'main air' pitch was a between the low F# and G on the low E string, and opening up the new port raises it to being right at G, you'd be unlikely to notice it." (italics added)

That should have been "LIKELY to notice it". In other words, if the resonant pitch goes from being off a played pitch to an exact match, or vice versa, you might hear it. Otherwise you probably won't.

I really do try to to proofread these things......

[rllink]

My thought, if you are so high speed that you're looking at pulling the end pin out to get an extra mph out of it, you are really good.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Iain1231

The UMGF seems to agree that removing/including the end pin seems to make some tonal difference
Well as the above post mentioned, removing it might reduce cracking the rim in the event of an accidental drop
https://umgf.com/endpin-makes-a-tone...ce-t82876.html

Thanks Iaim1231, I read all three pages from that link.

[pdx]

I’ve pulled UST’s with the end pin jack on three guitars and I do notice a difference with and without and endpin. I guess it depends on the guitar. I generally notice some of the bass and upper mids seem to go out the endpin hole. Sitting on the couch you may or may not hear a difference, but when you play in a tiled bathroom or in front of a large window, you may hear something.

[Iain1231]

you mean there is a noticeable increase in bass in certain situations?