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  #31  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:08 AM
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Lkristians Lkristians is offline
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Originally Posted by Kerbie View Post
The FAA released accident statistics for the leading causes of fatal General Aviation accidents for 2001-2016. The top nine were...

1. Loss of Control Inflight
2. Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3. System Component Failure – Powerplant
4. Fuel Related
5. Unknown or Undetermined
6. System Component Failure – Nonpowerplant
7. Unintended Flight In IMC
8. Midair Collisions
9. Low-Altitude Operations

If the helicopter really were descending at 4000 feet/minute at impact, it does sound like a loss of control, although we have no idea why. Very sad result and surprising with an experienced pilot. He had requested a Special VFR (Visual Flight Rules) clearance which required him to maintain one statute mile of visibility and be clear of clouds at all times. I imagine the pilots had done this many times, but that's an aggressive move flying low northwest of LA because of the challenging terrain.
Kerbie: Is this related to helicopters and/or general aviation? It seems that there are so many helicopter crashes, many associated with tours (Alaska/Hawaii)....I don't think you could pay me to get in one.
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  #32  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:48 AM
hairpuller hairpuller is offline
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Heartbreaking, especially with his daughter being there, too. Sounds like there were a few other parents with kids on the helicopter who also perished. I heard one of the kids/players had both parents on board and are leaving two small children behind.

Can't even fathom what the families are going through.

scott
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2020, 09:52 AM
westview westview is offline
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My thoughts and prayers go out to all the family and friends of the people on board. Here in the Los Angeles area, it was very overcast with heavy fog that morning. It was reported that law enforcement grounded all their helicopters that morning due to the weather conditions. We are all in shock. We watched Kobe grow up, saw his career, and marveled at his new direction of film making and encouraging kids and women's basketball. Again, prayers to all the families.
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2020, 03:03 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Originally Posted by Lkristians View Post
Is this related to helicopters and/or general aviation?
Those statistics included all fatal general aviation accidents, so it included airplane and helicopter. General aviation includes everything except air carriers and the military.
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  #35  
Old 01-30-2020, 10:47 AM
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It's so very sad. I met Kobe briefly years ago at Big 5 Sporting Goods in El Segundo. He was autographing stuff and you could come and have him sign something. I brought a basketball card, which he signed "Kobe 8" in those days. I haven't seen it in years though...

I've read just about everything that's come out . . . but I am still mystified as to what caused the crash. If the pilot radioed he was going up to get above the cloud layer as was between 2000-2300 feet and then banked left and then crashed, how does that happen? I don't think he hit a mountain. Perhaps a stall? Panic?

On another front, did anyone see TNT Tuesday night, with Shaq, Kenny, Jerry West, Dwayne Wade? It sure was like a group therapy session, sitting together in an empty Staples Center. I am worried about Jerry.
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:57 PM
patrickgm60 patrickgm60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Blueser100 View Post
I've read just about everything that's come out . . . but I am still mystified as to what caused the crash. If the pilot radioed he was going up to get above the cloud layer as was between 2000-2300 feet and then banked left and then crashed, how does that happen? I don't think he hit a mountain. Perhaps a stall? Panic?
Pilot most likely lost control while ascending through cloud layer. VFR into IMC (see my prior post for definitions) is a very common cause (if not THE most common cause) of fatal aircraft crashes for small aircraft.

Maintaining control of all axes while seeing nothing out the windows is trickier than it sounds. I'm just a low-hours private pilot (fixed-wing) but have read lots of NTSB accident reports and try to stay current. I've also found myself in IMC without an instrument rating and very little experience flying by instruments, alone. Dicey stuff, if you're not entirely focused.
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  #37  
Old 01-31-2020, 08:59 AM
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Heard this morning that the pilot was not cleared/certified? to fly in fog. This will open up tons of litigation, obviously. Also, Kobe and his wife made a pact to never fly together on a helicopter.

scott
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  #38  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:12 AM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Originally Posted by hairpuller View Post
Heard this morning that the pilot was not cleared/certified? to fly in fog. This will open up tons of litigation, obviously. Also, Kobe and his wife made a pact to never fly together on a helicopter.

scott
The owner of the helicopter was not certified:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/u...ification.html

"When the helicopter carrying the basketball legend Kobe Bryant crashed into a fogbound mountainside on Sunday, killing all nine people onboard, the pilot who was struggling to avoid the clouds did not have the legal authority to navigate with his instruments because the aircraft owner did not have the necessary federal certification, according to three sources familiar with the charter helicopter company’s operations."
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  #39  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:20 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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Yes, the rescue helicopters weren't even cleared to fly until the fog lifted. I wouldn't be surprised if the cause of the crash is the same as crash that killed Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Frankly, I'm grieving more for the daughter and the family that went down with them not to mention the surviving wife and daughters than for Kobe himself. I have no hate for Kobe, only ignorance; I do not follow basketball as a sport and it's my understanding that he was wealthy enough that they will not struggle financially in his absence.
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  #40  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:08 PM
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Yeah, pretty sure his wife, kids, and friends are still gonna miss him terribly...even with him being well off.
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  #41  
Old 01-31-2020, 02:50 PM
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Any loss of life is something to grieve for. All life is to be cherished in my book.
I don’t understand the thought process behind whether a person has money or whatever else has anything to do with grieving for that person differently or not at all.
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  #42  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickgm60 View Post
Pilot most likely lost control while ascending through cloud layer. VFR into IMC (see my prior post for definitions) is a very common cause (if not THE most common cause) of fatal aircraft crashes for small aircraft.

Maintaining control of all axes while seeing nothing out the windows is trickier than it sounds. I'm just a low-hours private pilot (fixed-wing) but have read lots of NTSB accident reports and try to stay current. I've also found myself in IMC without an instrument rating and very little experience flying by instruments, alone. Dicey stuff, if you're not entirely focused.
Thank you Patrick for your helpful response. There's a lot I don't understand about aviation and aeronautics, beyond common sense. A lot of questions still about what exactly happened. He probably got disoriented . . . I imagine it's hard to fly safely looking down at clouds/fog and if you are only going by visual flight rules. But what would make him ascend so quickly, then bank and descend so quickly...I don't understand that. Reminds of John Kennedy Jr's fatal flight, where he descended probably thinking he was going up...
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  #43  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:40 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Originally Posted by Blueser100 View Post
Reminds of John Kennedy Jr's fatal flight, where he descended probably thinking he was going up...
I doubt that's what JFK Jr experienced. He apparently had less than one hour of solo flying time at night in his aircraft. He probably became spatially disoriented as the visibility worsened and daylight waned. That can happen to any pilot; its onset is insidiously gradual. It's more likely to happen to pilots lacking IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) certification and experience, but it is not restricted to them.

When a pilot loses visual references outside, like the horizon, he either relies on instrument skills or instincts regarding how the airplane feels and sounds. A tiny bank of just a few degrees will slowly begin to feel like straight-and-level flight. If the bank isn't recognized and corrected, it will steepen. Eventually, the pilot can hear the engine sounds change as the bank becomes steeper and the airplane descends and gains airspeed. Inexperienced pilots may be too slow to correct or simply fail to do so. It comes on slowly, but without correction the plane will enter a graveyard spiral and then tighten into a graveyard spin. At that point, it's basically corkscrewing into the ground or water. I doubt that any pilot in that situation would think he's going up, but it can sometimes be very difficult to determine direction when there is no horizon upon which to rely.
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  #44  
Old 02-01-2020, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbie View Post
I doubt that's what JFK Jr experienced. He apparently had less than one hour of solo flying time at night in his aircraft. He probably became spatially disoriented as the visibility worsened and daylight waned. That can happen to any pilot; its onset is insidiously gradual. It's more likely to happen to pilots lacking IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) certification and experience, but it is not restricted to them.

When a pilot loses visual references outside, like the horizon, he either relies on instrument skills or instincts regarding how the airplane feels and sounds. A tiny bank of just a few degrees will slowly begin to feel like straight-and-level flight. If the bank isn't recognized and corrected, it will steepen. Eventually, the pilot can hear the engine sounds change as the bank becomes steeper and the airplane descends and gains airspeed. Inexperienced pilots may be too slow to correct or simply fail to do so. It comes on slowly, but without correction the plane will enter a graveyard spiral and then tighten into a graveyard spin. At that point, it's basically corkscrewing into the ground or water. I doubt that any pilot in that situation would think he's going up, but it can sometimes be very difficult to determine direction when there is no horizon upon which to rely.

Thanks for this information. Point being that the pilot in Kobe’s case possibly became disoriented for the reasons mentioned.
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  #45  
Old 02-01-2020, 05:23 PM
Huskyman Huskyman is offline
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I read that this pilot was trained and was also a instructor in instrument flying but this company did not allow it. In the same story the opinion was that 99 percent of helicopter pilots who are trained in instrument flying will never ever use it again after the training. He was probably very rusty in doing it as it was never really put into practice.
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