NGD Gone Wrong! - Page 2

martingitdave · #16 01-20-2020, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warfrat73

They had an Santa Cruz OM/PW recently that had two cracks disclosed... I'm wondering if there was some confusion in the description, or if you ended up with the wrong guitar?

I knew I read a description of a SC OM there recently that had cracks, and was able to find it archived online.

I'd be shocked if they didn't make it right.

This seems like the most probable excuse, and supports my suspicion. Nevertheless if they made that kind of mistake with the guitar, it’s not fair to ask them to partially refund taking advantage of their mistake. Simply return it and move on.

bufflehead · #17 01-20-2020, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozehound

It's a very reputable shop / dealer.

There seems to be a growing discrepancy between what buyers and sellers consider to be "excellent" condition. By not returning the guitar, you allow even more wiggle room where there shouldn't be as much as there already is.

Caveat emptor! With every thread such as this, I'm less inclined to purchase a used guitar listed in excellent condition. Reputable shops and dealers need to become aware that there's a credibility issue here.

RalphH · #18 01-20-2020, 12:08 PM

One more to the party. Get a refund. Itll never sit right with you even if they knock some off and if (when) you find something else wrong in a month you'll be kicking yourself. Did you try sliding some paper in under the bridge all around yet? There's just too many little things you might find later. I'd be freaking out every time I imagined I heard a rattle.

Peepaw · #19 01-20-2020, 12:13 PM

Return it.

skyblue314 · #20 01-20-2020, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaw

Return it.

Return it and don't ever do business with them again. Also, let us all know which shop it is so we don't commit the same mistake, lol

russchapman · #21 01-20-2020, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozehound

Thanks folks. It's a very reputable shop / dealer. I'm not mentioning the name in this post because I haven't had a chance to talk to them yet. It's a very nice sounding instrument and I do like a deal, so I'm considering throwing out a big number for a condition adjustment. A properly repaired center seam separation shouldn't be a long term issue, right? I would also take it to a good local luthier for a thorough inspection.

What would be a good price to pay for a Santa Cruz with those issues? $2K? Most of them seem to be listed for over $3K used on reverb etc.

Thanks!

$2k is a bit low. I'd say $2300-2600, depending on your enthusiasm.

ataylor · #22 01-20-2020, 12:43 PM

Too many great guitars out there — used or new, at any price point — to settle for one in this condition under these circumstances.

My recommendation would be to return it and find something wonderful. Good luck!

islandguitar · #23 01-20-2020, 01:21 PM

I'd return.....
"sounds alright" isn't the best testimony of a guitar you've been excited about purchasing. As others have stated.....lots of options out there right now!

Edgar Poe · #24 01-20-2020, 01:21 PM

Quite possibly the neck reset was on done by cutting away the rear upper bout from the sides, then using tension re position the neck to it's original position. Then they trim away the excess rear bout hanging over the end of the upper body. That could explain the dual cracks at the neck block, and the crack down the rear center seem. Those could be collateral damage to the poor man's neck reset.
Most of the time, it does work very well. But other times some added damage happens that then has to be repaired. All in all probably still a less complicated reset. So in reality those cracks were not there, when the shop obtained the guitar originally. The Luthier PROBABLY did not tell the shop owner he made those repairs. Only that he reset the neck, and that would look cosmetically as a perfect reset. Because the neck was never removed.

Ed

frankmcr · #25 01-20-2020, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozehound

Some of you may recall my posting about a week ago about a used Santa Cruz OMS that was being sold in excellent condition by a well know instrument dealer. The guitar was disclosed as having a recent neck reset performed by the shop (again, a reputable repair shop). It was a 13 year old guitar, so the neck reset was somewhat premature (not expected in a guitar that age).

Well the guitar arrived on Friday and was not is what I would call excellent condition. Multiple dings in the clear coat were visible on the top of the guitar, and that was just the beginning. There were two thin cracks in the back on either side of the end block. The cracks appeared to be finish cracks only (not through the wood) but the location was still concerning. Also not what I would call excellent condition.

I took the strings off to inspect the inside of the guitar for any cracking and was surprised to find 3 cleats along the center seam. In my opinion that is a relatively major repair that should be disclosed. I also find it hard to believe that the shop would purchase an instrument and perform a neck reset without checking out the inside of the guitar, particularly when they tout their thorough set-ups as a bonus of doing business with them.

The guitar sounds alright so I'm considering seeing if they are amenable to a significant condition adjustment. Any thoughts on how much I should ask for? I'm thinking somewhere around $1K off since the resale value would be materially impacted should I sell the instrument some day. I can also just return it and move on to something else.

So, the guitar has "dings" in the clear coat, two finish cracks, a repaired and cleated center seam separation, and "It's a very nice sounding instrument" (post #13) . . . "excellent" seems like a reasonable assessment.

Were there no photos accompanying the description?

JERZEY · #26 01-20-2020, 02:02 PM

Wow,

Sorry to hear how that turned out for you. I would send that thing back asap. I would never use that shop again. Those are some glaring mistakes...

DenverSteve · #27 01-20-2020, 02:26 PM

It totally depends on how much you like the guitar and what the original deal was. A cleated center seam is not a major issue, but you should have been advised of it prior to purchase. I didn't read the original listing but if it said "excellent condition for a 13 year-old guitar" that's different from just excellent condition. Yes, the dings should have been disclosed as well. To me a center-seam repair and a few tiny dents in the finish would be worth about $500 if the guitar is otherwise a keeper. If you're ambivalent at all, arrange to send it back.

UncleJesse · #28 01-20-2020, 03:03 PM

I'm not an expert on grading but I agree with you. A repaired crack should immediately disqualify an instrument from excellent. "Good" would be what I'd think it should be.

RalphH · #29 01-20-2020, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edgar Poe

Quite possibly the neck reset was on done by cutting away the rear upper bout from the sides, then using tension re position the neck to it's original position. Then they trim away the excess rear bout hanging over the end of the upper body. That could explain the dual cracks at the neck block, and the crack down the rear center seem. Those could be collateral damage to the poor man's neck reset.
Most of the time, it does work very well. But other times some added damage happens that then has to be repaired. All in all probably still a less complicated reset. So in reality those cracks were not there, when the shop obtained the guitar originally. The Luthier PROBABLY did not tell the shop owner he made those repairs. Only that he reset the neck, and that would look cosmetically as a perfect reset. Because the neck was never removed.

Ed

I love how much stuff some of the people on here know!

Boozehound · #30 01-20-2020, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

It totally depends on how much you like the guitar and what the original deal was. A cleated center seam is not a major issue, but you should have been advised of it prior to purchase. I didn't read the original listing but if it said "excellent condition for a 13 year-old guitar" that's different from just excellent condition. Yes, the dings should have been disclosed as well. To me a center-seam repair and a few tiny dents in the finish would be worth about $500 if the guitar is otherwise a keeper. If you're ambivalent at all, arrange to send it back.

The purchase was made from a well known and reputable shop, who had also performed a neck reset on the instrument. There were pictures, but none that clearly showed any of the finish flaws. No qualifiers were made.

I probably would have overlooked the dings in the finish etc. While not my definition of 'Excellent' condition, they are not a deal breaker. I do think that any cracks (even if repaired) or other significant repair work should be disclosed. I would also disclose significant finish cracks if I were selling a guitar.

Center Seam Repair
https://imgur.com/raVfejM

Finish Crack in back ~4-6 inches long. Does not appear to go through the wood (Not visible on inside) Center strip also looks a little rough, but that may just be age.
https://imgur.com/LvNWagQ

In addition the case, while it is a TKL SCGC branded case does not seem to be the correct case for this guitar. It is too large. I believe the case came from am OM Grand at some point.

Seems like the consensus is to send it back, which is likely what I will do.