Anyone build a classical using Sloane's book/methods

[printer2]

I have not bent any maple, can't offer any suggestions.

[Rondoraymundo]

Well here's an idea, practice sides:

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...d.html#details

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Rondoraymundo

Complete Guitar Repair - Kamimoto
Classic Guitar Making - Overholtzer
Guitar Repair - Sloane (the companion to his Classic Guitar Construction)

Those are all very largely out of date: I wouldn't chose any of those as a primary source from which to work. Overholtzer had interesting ideas about things that few others used.

All that arie mentioned are good.

[Rondoraymundo]

Originally Posted by arie

if you are into classicals this is a good book imo:
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Master-...+master+guitar

2 years ago i paid like $30 usd for it, the current price is steep so i suggest shopping around. the book is good for the fact that there are 9 separate examinations of famous builders and their famous guitars. a little bit of history behind the makers, and scaled drawings with detail views of the mosaic rosettes. the building tech section is a bit clumsy imo. the tech is dated and the methods not all that precise. still imo a must have just for the individual guitars featured. roy makes french polishing look like a walk in the park.

http://www.amazon.com/GUITARMAKING-G...9877738&sr=1-1
cumpaino and natelson. yes, you know the one. how to build a guitar the c&n way with all the trimmings. a good book actually, as long as you improvise your way around several of the more out-dated techniques. a fine start as long as you don't take it too seriously.

http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Guit...ds=bogdanovich
a good example of clean workmanship and attention to detail. you will learn how to make a bogdanovich classical, in color. hats off to john -he even finishes his fixtures in shellac.

in the end i would suggest the courtnall book because imo the "why's" are just as important as the "do's". each builder has/had their own methods and this book tells the story as well. for me serious guitar making is a journey and i like to learn more about it from people who have been there and crafted world famous guitars., hauser, fleta, romanillos, h&a, etc..

Thanks Arie, I looked on-line and ordered the Cumpiano and Natelson book and I am looking it over now.

Still thinking of boiling my side's. If I buy the Stew Mac kit, then that gives me two chances of setting up my trough and bending form and going through with the process, taking notes. Hey if I can't get it after two tries I can always re-order the kit.

How hard can this really be? A lot of guitars have been made with this method.

[clinchriver]

Originally Posted by Rondoraymundo

Thanks Arie, I looked on-line and ordered the Cumpiano and Natelson book and I am looking it over now.

Still thinking of boiling my side's. If I buy the Stew Mac kit, then that gives me two chances of setting up my trough and bending form and going through with the process, taking notes. Hey if I can't get it after two tries I can always re-order the kit.

How hard can this really be? A lot of guitars have been made with this method.

Don't boil your sides, I barely dampen any of my sides before bending, the less water = less problems with wood

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by clinchriver

Don't boil your sides, I barely dampen any of my sides before bending, the less water = less problems with wood

But, don't try to force dry, cold wood to conform to your unheated bending form. It will break.

There are numerous ways to bend the sides. Pick one and follow its method for successful results. If the method you choose requires boiling sides, so be it.

[Rondoraymundo]

Originally Posted by clinchriver

Don't boil your sides, I barely dampen any of my sides before bending, the less water = less problems with wood

There are obviously different methods, if you are using a bending iron, no you wouldn't want to boil the sides. If you are using a cold bending jig like I have however......

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=uq3Vud4x6Ng

[endpin]

I built a classical guitar using the Sloane method in 1971 using maple sides with minimal figure in the grain. I have this guitar to this day with no problems attributable to boiling the sides.

[Rondoraymundo]

Originally Posted by endpin

I built a classical guitar using the Sloane method in 1971 using maple sides with minimal figure in the grain. I have this guitar to this day with no problems attributable to boiling the sides.

How long did you boil the maple before you bent it?

[endpin]

We're talkin' a span 43 years here, so it is kinda hard to go back that far, but I followed the book procedure as best I could. I used a segment of rain gutter capped at both ends and straddled two burners on a cookstove. I think i left it on the bending form for a long time (maybe a week or so).

There might have been a little superficial mold on the wood when I took it off the form, but it sanded right off - who knows - maybe even contributed a little of the mysterious "Stradivari effect".

[stanron]

Here's a bit of a diversion. Boat builders will be familiar with the idea of steaming boxes. Wood, considerably thicker than any used in making guitars, is placed in the box and steam introduced for however long it took. There is then a short window of time for the wood to be bent to shape. Uffa Fox, a boat designer, builder and sailor from the Isle of Wight, wrote about preferring to boil timber for bending over steaming. It's a long time ago and I can't remember the reasons for his preferance but it might have been that he favoured the lower temperature that comes with boiling. He was, as I said, using wood that was too thick to cup. It is interesting that someone has actually used boiling for sides.

[endpin]

I am sure there is a wide range in between what "basically works" and what is the absolute optimum.

I think the same principle applies to the use of templates/fixtures in guitar construction. There is quite a range between "whittled out freehand" and CNC, but it all can work and I think Sloane strikes a good balance for a builder that is not going into mass production.

[Alan Carruth]

Unless you're using steam under pressure you'll get the same temperature with either steam or boiling. That's physics.

Usually there's enough water in the wood to begin with to bend it. The trick is to get it up to temperature fast, so you don't drive out the water that's there, and bend it to shape. Then you hold it in that shape until it cools off.

Water seems to lower the temperature at which you can bend the wood. As you drive the water out, the bending temperature goes up, and at some point, when the wood gets dry enough, you need to heat it to the point where it scorches before it will bend.

Water also seems to weaken the bonds between the wood fibers, particularly in tension. Wood that's too wet can peel apart on the outside of the bend, particularly if it's figured, like curly maple. The rule with bending figured wood is:"more heat, less water".

Adding water in the inside surface helps in three ways: it lowers the bending temperature, keeps the water content higher for longer, and helps conduct heat through the thickness of the wood.

If there's any tendency fr the wood to cup or warp, adding water will bring in out. That's another reason to avoid adding too much to figured wood, where the squirrely grain can lead to warping.

Once you've bent the wood it will tend to pick up any moisture it has lost, and this will usually relax the bend. Putting the sides in an outside mold while this happens can help keep them in shape.