Fret too low after leveling - how should it be fixed?

[clintj]

I took my Gibson in for a fret leveling and crowning, and the tech screwed it up. The third fret was filed down too far while crowning, and it has a strong buzz now on the fifth and sixth strings there. I'm taking it back on Tuesday to either have it made right, or get my money back so I can send it to someone who can. I gather the offending fret can be replaced from searching the internet, but what about the binding? It's an ES-335 with a bound fretboard, and the binding is scraped to match the frets. Is there a way they can fix that along with the fret?

I'm glad they're not open today, because I'm really upset about this. I have till Tuesday to cool down before they reopen. The store has a good reputation, and I've had a few guitars worked on there before so I don't know what happened this time.

[Frank Ford]

Please, by all means, take the time to collect your thoughts and approach the situation as calmly and positively as possible. By allowing the tech or shop to make things right for you, you have the greatest chance of a successful outcome.

We in the service business rely heavily on referrals and want our customers to be happy for all the obvious reasons. Anybody can screw up, and most of us will go the extra mile to correct a mistake.

[Ned Milburn]

If there is still enough meat on the frets, then another light dressing will fix it just fine.

We talked about Gibson's way of binding in a recent thread and it is generally agreed that it makes for some extra troubles.

Your guitar will need to be re fretted at some point, and when it is, the binding can easily be levelled to the same level as the fingerboard while the old frets are out before the new frets are in.

[clintj]

I went over it again today after sleeping on it. The nut was replaced as part of the work, and it was not shaped at all. It is still the full height blank, with deep slots in it from cutting the string slots. No attempt at all was made to remove any of the excess material, and there is glue residue on the headstock from the work that was not cleaned off.

The offending fret (third) is .007" lower than the second and fourth on the bass side. I went over the rest of the fretboard and found numerous other uneven spots too.

The guitar was supposed to be set up as well, and it was not. The relief was almost 1/16", and the intonation was off on three strings.

I would love for them to make it right, and to my satisfaction, but I am really leery of letting them touch it a second time after this. I'm taking it down there when they open tomorrow, and have a polite discussion with them about this.

[RustyAxe]

From what you say I'd chalk it up to hard lesson, ie, you brought your guitar to the wrong guy. Find out who is reliable in your area, and bring the guitar there. Not a chance I'd let this guy touch my guitar again, I certainly wouldn't consider giving him a shot at a refret. No way.

[John Arnold]

It is possible to refret a bound Gibson fretboard without altering or removing the binding......provided it doesn't need much leveling.
I carefully cut the frets to length so that they just fit inside the binding.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by clintj

I went over it again today after sleeping on it. The nut was replaced as part of the work, and it was not shaped at all. It is still the full height blank, with deep slots in it from cutting the string slots. No attempt at all was made to remove any of the excess material, and there is glue residue on the headstock from the work that was not cleaned off.

The offending fret (third) is .007" lower than the second and fourth on the bass side. I went over the rest of the fretboard and found numerous other uneven spots too.

The guitar was supposed to be set up as well, and it was not. The relief was almost 1/16", and the intonation was off on three strings.

I would love for them to make it right, and to my satisfaction, but I am really leery of letting them touch it a second time after this. I'm taking it down there when they open tomorrow, and have a polite discussion with them about this.

Sounds like a guitar BEFORE a setup and fret dressing, if your measurements are accurate (and I have no reason to doubt you).

I would suggest you politely ask for your money back, and then find someone trustworthy and of high quality to do the work for you.

That, or just eat the loss, and find someone quality to do the work. I have taken big losses in my home renos due to sub-standard work. Sometimes it is less of a loss to accept the loss and move ahead.

John is right that frets can be re-inset inside the binding, but the time & effort (ie: cost) to do a full fret job this way is, IMHO, not worth the trouble. There is no real advantage I can see to have the binding scraped to match the frets, and on the converse, there are advantages to having the fret extend fully to the edge of the binding.

[clintj]

So, the repair guy was both very puzzled and extremely apologetic. It took a while to figure out, but it looks like a few of the frets he reseated before the leveling rebounded which ruined the leveling job. This was confirmed by using feeler gages to check for gaps under the frets, and comparing it to how high the fret was relative to the others. He's taken it back, and will try to glue down the offenders and skim it again to make sure it's level. If that doesn't work, he will refund my money and I'll ship it off to have a complete refret done at someplace reputable like Gryphon or maybe Gibson in Nashville. Fingers crossed....

[John Arnold]

Before I do any fret leveling, I check for loose frets. I tap on them with a 6" metal ruler. If a fret 'clunks' instead of 'clink', it is loose. I either remove them, bend, and reinstall them, or I glue them with CA. In my experience, just hammering them back down is not sufficient. Hammering a fret tends to flatten it, making the ends pop up.
As long as the frets have enough material left, it is possible to remove and reset all the frets for much less time and money than doing a refret with all new frets. I have done this innumerable times.....mostly on cheaper Asian guitars.
This is one time when a file is superior to sandpaper for leveling frets. With a file, any loose fret will make a screeching sound when the file touches it.

There is no real advantage I can see to have the binding scraped to match the frets

The advantage is a smoother feel. The frets will never get sharp on the ends from fingerboard shrinkage.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Before I do any fret leveling, I check for loose frets. I tap on them with a 6" metal ruler. If a fret 'clunks' instead of 'clink', it is loose. I either remove them, bend, and reinstall them, or I glue them with CA. In my experience, just hammering them back down is not sufficient. Hammering a fret tends to flatten it, making the ends pop up.

The advantage is a smoother feel. The frets will never get sharp on the ends from fingerboard shrinkage.

Agreed 100% about anchoring loose frets and that hammering loose or out of level frets does more harm than good.

Because I bevel my frets and the very edge of the fingerboard, they will never extrude past the fingerboard edge during normal shrinkage, and as the fingerboard shrinks it is a simple matter to touch up the bevel during any normal maintenance routine. I remember seeing a couple guitars with fingerboard shrinkage that have pushed the binding away from the fingerboard edge. Hence, I don't think it is worthwhile to inset frets inside the binding.

[redir]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

It is possible to refret a bound Gibson fretboard without altering or removing the binding......provided it doesn't need much leveling.
I carefully cut the frets to length so that they just fit inside the binding.

I think the OP is talking about the Gibson 'nibs' at the fret end unless I am mistaken. Are you saying that you can actually keep those nibs on a refret? I just get rid of them and hung the tang fret end over the binding. I always hated those nib ends, in fact I'm not a fan at all of fretboard binding but it can smooth out the edge a bit, just makes repair more difficult.

[arie]

i don't like them much either. they get green and funky. just make sure your customer is ok with you filing them off or yelling will likely ensue. they're not really a crisis, they just take more time to deal with -so charge extra.

[John Arnold]

Are you saying that you can actually keep those nibs on a refret?

Yes. You can either fret inside the binding as I described, or you can remove the binding and reglue it after the frets are installed. I prefer the former.
It's usually not that big of an issue, but in the case of prewar Advanced Jumbos and Lloyd Loar mandolins, the owners can get very picky. I suspect the owners of late-1950's flametop Les Pauls could be the same way.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Yes. You can either fret inside the binding as I described, or you can remove the binding and reglue it after the frets are installed. I prefer the former.
It's usually not that big of an issue, but in the case of prewar Advanced Jumbos and Lloyd Loar mandolins, the owners can get very picky. I suspect the owners of late-1950's flametop Les Pauls could be the same way.

Good point, John.

[clintj]

Happy resolution! The repair guy spent an entire day pressing and gluing loose frets (9 total) until they stayed put overnight. A quick skim and crown of the frets, a setup, shaping of the nut, and it should be good to go now. He also told me to not hesitate to come back if another fret pops up over the next couple of weeks as the guitar finishes acclimating to my house. I'm pleased as punch now. That guitar plays wonderfully right now.

Side question though: how common is what I experienced? I've owned several guitars and not had this occur before.